I very much doubt that righties are capable of understanding the Enlgish language, ...
Typical Tico retort. Nuf said.
ican, For every pro-Iraq war article you can post, there are con-Iraq war articles to be found in search land. You have proved nothing. Those are biased opinions by people that have sacrificed nothing but their mouths. Have them send their loves ones to Iraq and Afghanistan; then they might have some credibility.
hose con-Iraq war articles are biased opinions by people that know nothing of the true opinions of a great majority of those in our military in Afghanistan and Iraq who are pro-Iraq war.
...
No, your sources are biased and probably heavily edited by the Military.
... Cycloptichorn
Okay, ican, so for the 150,000 military in Iraq and Afghanistan, what percentage do you "really" know?
Aren't you the one that questions the validity of polls?
[10]Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
[11]Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
Apparently he values the opinions of pawns more than any other piece, or anyone observing the board.
We should play chess sometime, Ican!
Cycloptichorn
ican, You keep bringing up moot points for why Bush got us engaged in Iraq. All witnesses who knows anything about WMDs and Saddam's connection to Al Qaeda have been refuted by the experts. There are no WMDs and no evidence that Saddam had direct connections to Al Qaeda or Osama.
Saddam did not have any WMDs after 1991. Saddam had no significant connections with al-Qaeda up to and including 9/11. It wasn't until December 2001, that al-Qaeda established its sanctuary in Iraq. I have repeatedly agreed with all three of these allegations. Why do you bring them up again?
That the soldiers you know are gung-ho for this war are considered patriots for fighting a war their commander in chief commanded them to fight - even when the justification for the war have been proven to be wrong. Soldiers are trained to follow orders.
If you think that, then why did you recommend I become a soldier and fight in Iraq before deciding whether the war in Iraq was/is necessary???
The WMD justification for the war has been proven wrong.
The al-Qaeda connection justification --prior to 9/11 -- for the war has been proven wrong.
However, these two justifications have been proven right:
(1) Members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
(2) Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens.
However, we must look beyond the sacrifices made by our military men and women and their families when a war is being fought on false pretenses, erroneous intelligence, and misguided goals to bring democracy to the middle east.
...
Two of the pretenses were false; two were true!
Bush and his cohorts do not have any goals except "stay the course." That is not a goal. That they continue to repeat "we are making progress," there's more evidence every day that Iraq is now in a civil war.
Iraq is not in a civil war! Iraq is in a war against malignancy! America's and Iraq's goals in fighting malignancy -- the first five of which have been achieved -- are:
(1) Select an initial Iraq government to hold a first election;
(2) Establish and begin training an Iraq self-defense military;
(3) Hold a democratic election of an interim government whose primary function is to write a proposed constitution for a new Iraq democratic government;
(4) Submit that proposed constitution to Iraq voters for approval or disapproval;
(5) After approval by Iraq voters of an Iraq democratic government constitution, hold under that constitution a first election of the members of that government;
(6) After that election, organize the newly elected Iraq government;
(7) Train, as specified by the new Iraq government, an Iraq military to secure that Iraq government;
(8) After the Iraq government has been secured, remove the USA military from Iraq in a phased withdrawal.
...
All the links you provided doesn't amount to a hill of beans. They're all irrelevant.
I think all the links I provided are relevant. I have repeatedly posted excerpts to demonstrate why I think so.[/color]
Once you decide to the real world, you migh tlearn something important; wars do not solve problems; it only kills people.
Wars solve self-defense problems.
Our war with Japan was for self-defense; the only time war is justified.
Our war with Germany was for self-defense too. Germany as well as Japan declared war on America after Japan attacked us. Our war with malignancy (e.g., al-Qaeda) is for self-defense too. Malignancy obtained sanctuary in Afghanistan and also declared war on America. Malignancy obtained sanctuary in Iraq and also declared war on America. A malignancy of 20 murdered 3,000 Americans. A malignancy of 300 could murder 45,000. A malignancy of 3,000 could murder 450,000. A malignancy of 10,000 could murder 1,500,000.
A minimum of 10,000 malignancy were trained in Afghanistan and subsequently spread to other countries. More were being trained in Iraq after they established their sanctuary there in December 2001.
We must never again preemptively strike another sovereign country when they do not have the wherewithal to strike against us, and there is no proof they have the means or intent. Saddam and Iraq was the least of our problems; he was contained in his own country, and the UN Inspectors were on the ground looking for WMDs. Nothing more was needed.
Al-Qaeda, having been allowed santuary in Afghanistan and in Iraq, were a big problem and promised to become the most of our problems unless we first solve the big problem they presented us.
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And don't give us that BS they're doing it for our "security."
We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them.
The President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
Tonight we are a country awakened to danger. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them.
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.
I say to you ... These youths [love] death as you love life.
...
Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.
Few days ago the news agencies had reported that the Defence Secretary of the Crusading Americans had said that "the explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar had taught him one lesson: that is not to withdraw when attacked by coward terrorists".
We say to the Defence Secretary that his talk can induce a grieving mother to laughter! and shows the fears that had enshrined you all. Where was this false courage of yours when the explosion in Beirut took place on 1983 AD (1403 A.H). You were turned into scattered pits and pieces at that time; 241 mainly marines solders were killed. And where was this courage of yours when two explosions made you to leave Aden in lees than twenty four hours!
But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.
On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.
Everything related to them such as complexes, bases, means of transportation, especially Western and American Airlines, will be our main and direct targets in our forthcoming operations on our path of Jihad that we, with Allah's Power, will not turn away from.
Al Qaeda's seven phase plan for world conquest.
Phase 1, the "wakeup call." Spectacular terrorist attacks on the West
(like September 11, 2001) get the infidels (non-Moslems) to make war on
Islamic nations. This arouses Moslems, and causes them to flock to al
Qaedas banner. This phase is considered complete.
Phase 2, the "eye opening." This is the phase we are in, where al Qaeda
does battle with the infidels, and shows over a billion Moslems how
it's done. This phase is supposed to be completed by next year.
Phase 3, "the rising." Millions of aroused (in a terrorist sense)
Moslems go to war against Islam's enemies for the rest of the decade.
Especially heavy attacks are made against Israel. It is believed that
major damage in Israel will force the world to acknowledge al Qaeda as a major power, and negotiate with it.
Phase 4, "the downfall." By 2013, al Qaeda will control the Persian
Gulf, and all its oil, as well as most of the Middle East. This will
enable al Qaeda to cripple the American economy, and American military
power.
Phase 5, "the Caliphate." By 2016, the Caliphate (one government for
all Moslem nations) will be established. At this point, nearly all
Western cultural influences will be eliminated from Islamic nations. The
Caliphate will organize a mighty army for the next phase.
Phase 6, "world conquest." By 2022, the rest of the world will be
conquered by the righteous and unstoppable armies of Islam. This is the
phase that Osama bin Laden has been talking about for years.
Phase 7, "final victory." All the world's inhabitants will be forced to
either convert to Islam, or submit (as second class citizens) to
Islamic rule. This will be completed by 2025 or thereabouts.
A summary of Letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi July 9, 2005.
*The war in Iraq is central to al Qa'ida's global jihad.
*The war will not end with an American departure.
*Their strategic vision is one of inevitable conflict with a call by al-Zawahiri for political action equal to military action.
*Popular support must be maintained at least until jihadist rule has been established.
*More than half the struggle is taking place "in the battlefield of the media."
Letter in English at:
www.dni.gov/letter_in_english.pdf
... the U.S., Israel and India as existential enemies of Islam and lists eight reasons for global jihad. These include the restoration of Islamic sovereignty to all lands where Muslims were once ascendant, including Spain, "Bulgaria, Hungary, Cyprus, Sicily, Ethiopia, Russian Turkistan and Chinese Turkistan. . . Even parts of France reaching 90 kilometers outside Paris."
: Any fruitcake like Osama can make threats, ... the threat is mostly bluster without any way to carry it out.
...
May 19, 1996: Bin Laden leaves Sudan –after escaping at least one assassination attempt -- significantly weakened despite his ambitious organization skills, and returns to Afghanistan where he establishes al Qaeda training bases.61
...
U.S. intelligence estimates put the total number of fighters who underwent instruction in Bin Ladin-supported camps in Afghanistan from 1996 through 9/11 at 10,000 to 20,000.78
1996
June 25: Khobar Towers bombing, killing 19 and wounding 372 Americans.
1997
----
1998
August 7: U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000.
1999
----
2000
October 12: USS Cole bombing kills 17 US sailors.
2001
September 11: The attacks on September 11 kill almost 3,000 in a series of hijacked airliner crashes into two U.S. landmarks: the World Trade Center in New York City, New York, and The Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. A fourth plane crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.
October 12: Bali car bombing of holidaymakers kills 202 people, mostly Western tourists and local Balinese hospitality staff.
October 17: Zamboanga bombings in the Philippines kill six and wounds about 150.
October 18: A bus bomb in Manila kills three people and wounds 22.
October 19: A car bomb explodes outside a McDonald's Corp. restaurant in Moscow, killing one person and wounding five.
October 23: Moscow theater hostage crisis begins; 120 hostages and 40 terrorists killed in rescue three days later.
2003
March 4: Bomb attack in an airport in Davao kills 21.
2003
May 12: Bombings of United States expatriate housing compounds in Saudi Arabia kill 26 and injure 160 in the Riyadh Compound Bombings. Al-Qaeda blamed.
May 12: A truck bomb attack on a government building in the Chechen town of Znamenskoye kills 59.
May 14: As many as 16 die in a suicide bombing at a religious festival in southeastern Chechnya.
May 16: Casablanca Attacks by 12 bombers on five "Western and Jewish" targets in Casablanca, Morocco leaves 41 dead and over 100 injured. Attack attributed to a Moroccan al-Qaeda-linked group.
July 5: 15 people die and 40 are injured in bomb attacks at a rock festival in Moscow.
August 1: An explosion at the Russian hospital in Mozdok in North Ossetia kills at least 50 people and injures 76.
August 25: At least 48 people were killed and 150 injured in two blasts in south Mumbai - one near the Gateway of India at the other at the Zaveri Bazaar.
September 3: A bomb blast on a passenger train near Kislovodsk in southern Russia kills seven people and injures 90.
November 15 and November 20: Truck bombs go off at two synagogues, the British Consulate, and the HSBC Bank in Istanbul, Turkey, killing 57 and wounding 700.
December 5: Suicide bombers kill at least 46 people in an attack on a train in southern Russia
December 9: A blast in the center of Moscow kills six people and wounds at least 11.
2004
February 6: Bomb on Moscow Metro kills 41.
February 27: Superferry 14 is bombed in the Philippines by Abu Sayyaf, killing 116.
March 2: Attack on procession of Shia Muslims in Pakistan kills 43 and wounds 160.
March 11: Coordinated bombing of commuter trains in Madrid, Spain, kills 191 people and injures more than 1,500.
April 21: Basra bombs in Iraq kill 74 and injure hundreds.
April 21: Bombing of a security building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills 5.
May 29: Al-Khobar massacres, in which Islamic militants kill 22 people at an oil compound in Saudi Arabia.
August 24: Bombing of Russian airplane kills 90.
August 31: A blast near a subway station entrance in northern Moscow, caused by a suicide bomber, kills 10 people and injures 33.
September 1 – 3: Beslan school hostage crisis in North Ossetia, Russia, results in 344 dead.
September 9: Jakarta embassy bombing, in which the Australian embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia was bombed, kills eight people.
October 7: Sinai bombings: Three car bombs explode in the Sinai Peninsula, killing at least 34 and wounding 171, many of them Israeli and other foreign tourists.
December 6: Suspected al Qaeda-linked group attacks U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, killing 5 local employees.
December 12: A bombing at the Christmas market in General Santos, Philippines, kills 15.
2005
February 14: A car bomb kills former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri and 20 others in Beirut.
March 9: An attack of an Istanbul restaurant killed one, and injured five.
March 19: Car bomb attack on theatre in Doha, Qatar, kills one Briton and wounds 12 others.
April 7: A suicide bomber blows himself up in Cairo's Khan al Khalili market, killing three foreign tourists and wounding 17 others.
May 7: Multiple bomb explosions across Myanmar's capital Rangoon kill 19 and injure 160.
June 12: Bombs explode in the Iranian cities of Ahvaz and Tehran, leaving 10 dead and 80 wounded days before the Iranian presidential election.
July 7: London bombings - Attacks on one double-decker bus and three London Underground trains, killing 56 people and injuring over 700, occur on the first day of the 31st G8 Conference. The attacks are believed by many to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe.
July 23: Sharm el-Sheikh bombings: Car bombs explode at tourist sites in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, killing at least 88 and wounding more than 100.
August 17: Around 100 home-made bombs exploded in 58 different locations in Bangladesh, Killing two and wounding 100.
October 1: A series of explosions occurs in resort areas of Jimabaran Beach and Kuta in Bali, Indonesia.
October 13: A large group of Chechen rebels launched coordinated attacks on Russian federal buildings, local police stations, and the airport in Nalchik, Kabardino-Balkaria. At least 137 people, including 92 rebels, were killed.
October 15: Two bombs exploded at a shopping mall in Ahvaz, Khuzestan in Iran. Six people died and over 100 were injured.
October 29: Multiple bomb blasts hit markets in New Delhi, India, leaving at least 61 dead and more than 200 injured.
November 9: Three explosions at hotels in Amman, Jordan, leave at least 57 dead and 120 wounded.
December --
2006
January --
February --
March 2: Bombing in Karachi, Pakistan kills four, including a U.S. diplomat.
March 7: Bombings in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi, India, leave at least 15 people dead.
cicerone imposter wrote:: Any fruitcake like Osama can make threats, ... the threat is mostly bluster without any way to carry it out.
...
"the threat is mostly bluster"
Let's examine that a little more carefully. A total of 20 suicidal terrorists, less one named Moussaoui, murdered almost 3,000 American civilians. Would it take 15 times as many terrorists -- 300 -- to murder 45,000 American civilians? Al-Qaeda trained more than enough in Afghanistan before 9/11: a minimum of 10,000 trained terrorists - 300 suicidal terrorists = 9,700 left over for more murdering still.
The war in Iraq is a war on a malignancy.
The malignancy forces in Iraq are mass murdering civilians in Iraq. That is Evil!
The anti-malignancy forces in Iraq are mass murdering malignancy forces in Iraq. That is Good!
cicerone imposter wrote:ican, For every pro-Iraq war article you can post, there are con-Iraq war articles to be found in search land. You have proved nothing. Those are biased opinions by people that have sacrificed nothing but their mouths. Have them send their loves ones to Iraq and Afghanistan; then they might have some credibility.
cice, For every con-Iraq war article you can post, there are pro-Iraq war articles to be found in search land. You have proved nothing. Those con-Iraq war articles are biased opinions by people that know nothing of the true opinions of a great majority of those in our military in Afghanistan and Iraq who are pro-Iraq war. Send those con-Iraq article writers to Iraq and Afghanistan where they can learn from that great majority of our pro-Iraq military there, what is actually being accomplished there, despite all our flaws and mistakes, and most especially despite all those biased opinion con-Iraq articles published in America.
Casualties of war
Author: Rudy Sabga
Date: February, 2006
Journalists used to be seen as neutral, but now they're ransom bait, bargaining chips or the outright enemy. Last year was the worst on record for correspondents getting killed on the job -- and in 2006, the trend continues
On February 23, the bodies of correspondent Atwar Bahjat, cameraman Khaled Mahmoud al-Falahi and engineer Adnan Khairallah were found near Samarra, Iraq. Bahjat was a correspondent for Al-Arabiya, while al-Falahi and Khairallah were employees of Wasan Productions on assignment for Al-Arabiya. The Wasan crew was covering the bombing of a Shiite shrine near Samarra, Iraq, when armed men attacked them and demanded to know the whereabouts of Bahjat. Their last broadcast was at 6 P.M. the day before their bodies were found.
On February 2, Wu Xianghu, deputy editor of Taizhou Wanbao, died of liver and kidney failure after months of hospitalization. He was attacked by traffic police in the eastern coastal city of Taizhou, Zhejiang province, China, in October 2005, after writing an embarrassing exposé of high fee collections for electric bicycle licenses.
Credit: William Kunz
On January 25, Baghdad TV correspondent Mahmoud Za'al was shot and killed in a U.S. air strike while covering an insurgent attack by Sunni rebels on two U.S.-held buildings in Ramadi, Iraq. He had worked for the station for one year.
On January 24, the day before, Subramaniyam Sugitharajah, a part-time reporter for the Sudar Oli, was killed by an unidentified gunman on his way to work. Photographs taken by Sugitharajah had shown that five students in Tamil, Sri Lanka, had been killed by gunshot wounds January 2, despite claims by the military that the men were blown up by their own grenade in an attempted attack on the army.
Keith said: "A note about Laura Ingram's comments. I've known her a long time. I'll in fact give you the caveat that I've know her socially. But that hotel balcony crack was unforgivable. In was unforgivable to the memory of David Bloom, it was unforgivable in considerable of Bob Woodruff and Doug Vought, unforgivable in light of what happened to Michael Kelly and what happened to Michael Weiskopft. It was unforgivable with Jill Carroll still a hostage in Iraq. And it was not only unforgivable of her; it was desperate and it was stupid."
Got the link from Crooks and Liars in the Olbermann slams Ingraham section at the bottom where Olbermann says this:
Quote:Keith said: "A note about Laura Ingram's comments. I've known her a long time. I'll in fact give you the caveat that I've know her socially. But that hotel balcony crack was unforgivable. In was unforgivable to the memory of David Bloom, it was unforgivable in considerable of Bob Woodruff and Doug Vought, unforgivable in light of what happened to Michael Kelly and what happened to Michael Weiskopft. It was unforgivable with Jill Carroll still a hostage in Iraq. And it was not only unforgivable of her; it was desperate and it was stupid."
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/22.html#a7625