THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

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This is the tenth thread in a series which has been running for three years and three months, and although broken into several threads, very likely constitutes the longest running discussion online anywhere. There may be other candidates for such a dubious honor, but this series is a monster nevertheless. Below i have copied my initial post from a bibliography of this thread series which i cannot now edit to keep it up-to-date. Please carry on here as you have done in the past, and i have no doubt that you will carry on. My initial post in the bibliography is in error, because, in fact, Walter Hinteler started the series with the "Anti War Movement" thread, and Edgarblythe's post on November 14, 2002, was the first post in the second thread which Jespah had created by splitting off the discussion in the first thread, and re-titling the thread "The US, the UN and Iraq." I'd ask everyone to play nice, but i know better.

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On November 14, 2002, Edgarblythe started the monster of all threads at this site. Today, i opened the eighth thread in the series. I felt a bibliography of sorts would be in order. Now, if you're up to the effort, you can find out if she really did say so before the war . . .

This is the ur-thread to the series:

Anti War Movement, Walter Hinteler, October 22, 2002.

Which was split off by Jespah and has been followed by:

The US, The UN and Iraq[/b], Edgarblythe (first post in this new thread), November 14, 2002.

The US, UN & Iraq II[/b], Jespah, March 10, 2003.

The US, Un & Iraq III[/b], Jespah, April 16, 2003.

The US, UN and Iraq IV[/b], McTag, August 27, 2003

THE US, UN AND IRAQ V[/b], Setanta, November 25, 2003

THE US, UN AND IRAQ VI[/b], Setanta (at the request of Kara), December 23, 2003

THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0[/b], Setanta, January 7, 2004

US AND THEM: US, UN & Iraq, version 8.0[/b], Setanta, May 5, 2005

I will attempt to keep this up-to-date, or in my absence, request that a responsible person do so.

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I had intended to post the total posts to all the threads, and the total views--but it's late and the task has proven more difficult than i bargained for. There are more than 160 pages in the Politics forum to wade through to get the information, and it could be found anywhere. So, for example, there were still idiotic assertions being made and answered in the original thread in the spring of 2004, a year and a half after that thread had been split off to the second thread. The last version from which this was linked had almost 6000 responses, and had been viewed more than 50,000 times. This suggests that there are probably more than 50,000 posts in the entire series, and a half million or more views. This is more than the total traffic of some bulletin boards online.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 141,421 • Replies: 5,328

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would it be in bad taste to try and tie acne into this thread?

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Head 'em up, move 'em out.

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Knock yerself out, Boss, given the history of this series (i'd read almost every post in all the threads, until Ican showed up), it would be difficult to describe anything as in bad taste.

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oxy pads, oxymorons, it's all the same to me

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MEASURABLE PROGRESS

ican711nm wrote:

The USA and Iraq's solution is to establish a democracy in Iraq secured by the Iraqis themselves. Iraq and the USA have completed five of seven steps toward their solution:
(1) Select an initial Iraq government to hold a first election.
(2) Establish and begin training an Iraq self-defense military.
(3) Hold a democratic election of an interim government whose primary function is to write a proposed constitution for a new Iraq democratic government.
(4) Submit that proposed constitution to Iraq voters for approval or disapproval.
(5) After approval by Iraq voters of an Iraq democratic government constitution, hold under that constitution a first election of the members of that government.
(6) Organize the newly elected Iraq government.
(7) Train, as specified by the new Iraq government, an Iraq military to secure that Iraq government.
(8) Remove the USA military from Iraq in a phased withdrawal.

The USA will withdraw from Iraq in phases in harmony with the evolution of Iraq's self-governance. As a consequence, both Iraqis and Americans will in their mutual self-interest achieve the following goals:
(A) Stop the terrorists and Saddamists from threatening Iraq's democracy;
(B) Enable Iraqi security forces to protect their own people;
(C) Prevent Iraq from becoming a potential safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against the USA and other countries.

ican711nm wrote:

MEASURABLE PROGRESS TOWARD ACHIEVING GOAL (A)

Saddam’s regime murdered more than 720,000 Iraq civilian men, women, and children over 30 years.

Saddamists and al-Qaeda murdered, and Coalition killed 32,444 ] Iraq civilian men, women, and children from 1/1/2003 to 12/31/2005.

Saddamists and al-Qaeda murdered, and Coalition killed 356 Iraq civilian men, women, and children from 1/1/2006 to 1/22/2006.

On average, Saddam’s regime murdered more than 2,000 Iraq civilian men, women, and children per month over 30 years.

On average, Saddamists and al-Qaeda murdered, and Coalition killed 901 Iraq civilian men, women, and children per month from 1/1/2003 to 12/31/2005.

Projection based on daily average, Saddamists and al-Qaeda will have murdered, and Coalition will have killed 502 Iraq civilian men, women, and children in the month from 1/1/2006 to 1/31/2006.

That will result in a total of 32,444 + 502 = 32,946; then divide that by 37 and you will get the new monthly average of 890.

That would result in a reduction of the monthly average from 901 to 890 and would surely be a little measurable progress.

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Book

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delete

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Actually, the PUP's went over 350 plus threads, and that was when I stopped watching ... a year ago. Average length, 300-500 posts or more, each.

Anon

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In today's news:

In Iskandariya, south of Baghdad, 10 Iraqis were killed and 3 were wounded when a bomb exploded inside a candy shop on Saturday evening, an Interior Ministry official said. Among the three Iraqis killed Saturday in Baghdad was Abdul Razzaq al-Naash, a Baghdad university professor in his 50's. He was gunned down near the university's management institute at 2:45 p.m., the Interior Ministry official said.

In Dora, an insurgent-dominated southern neighborhood, gunmen opened fire on a police station, killing one police commando recruit and wounding another, the Interior Ministry official said.

In Sadr City, the huge Shiite slum here, gunmen fatally shot a teacher near his house around noon.

The American military announced the completion of an operation in the western province of Anbar that resulted in arrests of 20 people suspected of being insurgents. The operation, which began Jan. 15 near Hit, along the Euphrates River, was aimed at disrupting insurgent routes into Iraq from Syria.

In Tal Afar, the mayor was wounded when guerrillas fired mortars at his office on Saturday, Agence France-Presse reported.

The American military reported the deaths of two American soldiers: one killed by a roadside bomb in central Baghdad on Saturday, the other killed in a vehicle accident in Falluja on Friday.

In Kurdistan, health officials disclosed that a 42-year-old man died Friday after exhibiting symptoms consistent with bird flu. The man, Hama Sur, was the uncle of a girl who died earlier this month from flulike symptoms, but the Iraqi authorities said tests later showed the girl's death was not from the A(H5N1) bird flu virus.

In Sulaimaniya, the largest city in eastern Kurdistan, the health authorities said they had sent samples from the uncle to be tested at a lab in Cairo. They said he lived in the same village as the girl. Kurdistan borders Turkey, where an avian flu outbreak has struck at least 20 people.

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I had no idea the thread has been around in various forms for so long. But then I have only been here for a little over two years. Seems a lot longer.

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Bob Woodruf has been severely injured by a bomb in Iraq. He and another news reporter were hurt by a bomb as they rode with a convoy. I haven't seen this online yet.

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Thanks for the history, Setanta, and the new thread. I think I've been here for three years.

Yes, it has turned into mostly a rant. Perhaps some who check in from time to time are interested only in maintaining a thread of phenomenal length. In my increasingly infrequent visits, I look for intelligent and non-repetitive posts.

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BM and,

Ican is a poopity head.

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Is poopity head the same as poopy head?

Nice to back on track though, gives a person a sense of security.

One thing is for sure, he sure has a sense of perseverance.

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This is the title that Setanta gave to this version of his long series:

Quote:

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD

.

Why is it that some here continue to perceive the state of ican711nm's head to be on topic?

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I have been reflecting recently on the effects of US (and, I'm ashamed to say, also British) foreign policy on Middle East developments lately.

Afghanistan is in revolt, armed insurgency is rife, and more British troops are to be sent there. Taliban are blowing up new schools, three last week. No military solution has been possible there, evidently.

Iran has elected a hard-line administration and follows a muslim fundamentalist path. This administration has re-started a nuclear research and development programme. These people are implacably opposed to the existence of the State of Israel.

Iraq has no effective security, and the fundamentalists there are increasing their grip, by democratic vote. Civil war/ slaughter seems likely. The infrastructure there is in tatters, and western contractors cannot rebuild because of the security problem, despite all the money that is being expended there.

Palestine (a democracy!) has voted by large majority for Hamas, which will not recognise Israel's right to exist. This, despite and also perhaps because of hundreds of millions of American dollars going to their rivals Fatah.
Another fine mess.

Do you imagine "Mission Accomplished" George and his accomplices had this scenario in mind, four years ago?

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What should the USA and Britain have done instead?

What do you think would have been the consequences of doing that instead?

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ican711nm wrote:

What should the USA and Britain have done instead?

What do you think would have been the consequences of doing that instead?

I know that an armed gang's arial assault on mainland America is not a credible not just cause for an invasion of another country.

Please don't trouble to reply to this, as I've seen enough of your opinions before.

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

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