THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, TENTH THREAD.

cicerone imposter wrote:

McG, As always, you're missing the main point: Bush was justified in threatening Saddam and his sons to leave Iraq, and if they didn't, it was okay to get 2,500 of our soldiers killed, over 16,000 injured, and costing us over two billion every week -with no end in sight.


You're a moron like Bush.

You call me a moron, yet daily you prove yourself to be nothing more then an uneducated regurgitator of stupidity. You demonatrate no grasp of politics, and seem to have the retention power of a goldfish when it comes to understanding anything.

ticomaya, I don't have to be intelligent ...

McTag wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

xingu wrote:

The question is why did Bush eject the weapons inspectors from Iraq so he could invade the country. If he tried to use all possible means to prevent war, as he claimed, there would be no reason to eject the weapons inspectors. However if the weapon inspectors were undermining Bush's reason to invade Iraq then he had to get them out of there in a hurry. It should have been evident, even at that time, that Iraq was of no imminent threat to anyone that the weapon inspectors had to be ejected and the invasion initiated.

They had 12 years to inspect and were asked to leave because Saddam chose to go to war instead of surrendering. Better to have them leave rather then being killed during the invasion or used as hostages by Saddam.

You know a lot better than that, or you should do.

Saddam was carefully manoevred towards war, sorry, suffering an invasion. The USA did not want anything less, and so they arranged it that way.

From March 17, 2003 address to the Nation, Bush said:

Quote:

In recent days, some governments in the Middle East have been doing their part. They have delivered public and private messages urging the dictator to leave Iraq, so that disarmament can proceed peacefully. He has thus far refused. All the decades of deceit and cruelty have now reached an end. Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing. For their own safety, all foreign nationals -- including journalists and inspectors -- should leave Iraq immediately.

I'm not going to rise to your bait of characterization of mainstream media, but of those that I frequent often, there is plenty of reporting about Iraq other than violent civilian deaths.

I wonder if the liebral news media (i.e., ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, NYT, WP, LAT, et al) publishes much about Iraq and Afghanistan, beyond violent civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, that is "accurate, reputable news."

Ican,
Did you read them?

cicerone imposter: Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:48 pm Post: 2130462 - wrote:

ican, ... it doesn't matter what I think; it matters a whole lot what Arabs/Muslims think. ...

...
I infer, cice, that you think:
(1) "it doesn't matter what [you] think";

(2) "it matters a whole lot what Arabs/Muslims think".

ICAN PREDICTIONS MADE IN JUNE 2006

1,050 Iraqi civilians died violently in June 2006.

950 Iraqi civilians died violently in July 2006.

850 Iraqi civilians died violently in August 2006.

750 Iraqi civilians died violently in September 2006.

650 Iraqi civilians died violently in October 2006.

550 Iraqi civilians died violently in November 2006.

450 Iraqi civilians died violently in December 2006.

Anonymous: Inside Iraq (A View from the Military)

[This comes to me by a circuitous route from an officer who attended the event described. My source suggests to me that the officer's and his own identity should be kept in confidence. There are a number of things in circulation that read like this but none are nearly as interesting and detailed. KMJ (i.e., Ken M. Jensen)]

Inside Iraq

Earlier this week I attended a retired general and flag officer conference at Fort Carson, hosted by MGen Bob Mixon, the 7th Infantry Division Commander which calls the Fort its home. For those of you who are unfamiliar with Ft. Carson, it is a huge installation located to the south of Colorado Springs; it's in the process of becoming one of the larger Army installations in the country (26,000 soldiers); and it is the test location for the new "modular brigade" concept that will reflect the Army of tomorrow by 2008. It is also the home post of the largest number of troopers who have served multiple tours in Afghanistan and Iraq and, regrettably, the largest number of troopers who have died in combat there over the past three years. There are Ft. Carson units going to and returning from the combat area virtually on a monthly basis.

The conference was primarily organized to explain the modular brigade concept, and it featured a panel of officers who had either very recently returned from commands in the combat zone or were about to deploy there in the next two months. Three of the recent returnees were Colonel H.R. McMaster, Colonel Rick S., and Captain Walter Szpak. McMaster is the commander of the 3rd Armored Calvary Regiment, the unit that, through very innovative and population-friendly tactics, rid the city of Tal Afar of insurgents. The mayor of Tal Afar came back to Carson two weeks ago to thank the troopers and their families personally for "freeing his people". (You say you didn't hear about that in the mainstream media?)

McMaster is considered the foremost U.S. expert on modern insurgent warfare, has written a book on the subject which is widely circulated at the war colleges and staff colleges, and he was asked to testify before Congress when he returned from the 3rd ACR combat deployment. He is obviously one of the great combat leaders that has emerged from the war and is highly respected (some would say revered) by his troopers and his superiors alike.

Colonel S. is assigned to the 10th Special Forces Brigade and he headed up all of the 31 special forces A-teams that are integrated with the populace and the Iraqi Army and national police throughout the country. Many of these are the guys that you see occasionally on the news that have beards, dress in native regalia, usually speak Arabic and don't like to have their identities revealed for fear of retribution on their families (thus the Colonel S.) Captain Szpak was the head of all the Army explosive ordnance teams in Iraq. He and his troops had the job of disarming all the improvised explosive devices (IEDs) and explosive formed projectiles (EFPs) that were discovered before they were detonated. They also traveled around the country training the combat forces in recognizing and avoiding these devices in time to prevent death and injury. IEDs and EFPs are responsible for the vast majority of casualties experienced by our forces.

Despite the objective of the conference (i.e., the modular brigade concept), it quickly devolved into a 3½ hour question and answer period between the panel and the 54 retired generals and admirals who attended. I wish I had a video of the whole session to share with you because the insights were especially eye opening and encouraging. I'll try to summarize the high points as best I can.

·All returnees agreed that "we are clearly winning the fight against the insurgents but we are losing the public relations battle both in the war zone and in the States". (I'll go into more detail on each topic below.)

·All agreed that it will be necessary for us to have forces in Iraq for at least ten more years, though by no means in the numbers that are there now.

·They opined that 80% to 90% of the Iraqi people want to have us there and do not want us to leave before "the job is done".

·The morale and combat capability of the troops is the highest that the senior officers have ever seen in the 20-30 years that each has served.

·The Iraqi armed forces and police are probably better trained right now than they were under Saddam, but our standards are much higher and they lack officer leadership.

·They don't need more troops in the combat zone but they need considerably more Arab linguists and civil affairs experts.

·The IEDs and EFPs continue to be the principal problem that they face and they are becoming more sophisticated as time passes.

Public Affairs: We are losing the public affairs battle for a variety of reasons. First, in Iraq, the terrorists provide Al Jazeera with footage of their more spectacular attacks and they are on TV to the whole Arab world within minutes of the event. By contrast it takes four to six days for a story generated by Army Public Affairs to gain clearance by Combined Forces Command, two or three more days to get Pentagon clearance, and after all that, the public media may or may not run the story.

Second, the U.S. mainstream media (MSM) who send reporters to the combat zone do not like to have their people embedded with our troops. They claim that the reporters get "less objective" when they live with the soldiers and marines - they come to see the world through the eyes of the troops. As a consequence, a majority of the reporters stay in hotels in the "Green Zone" and send out native stringers to call in stories to them by cell phone which they later write up and file. No effort is made to verify any of these stories or the credibility of the stringers. The recent serious injuries to Bob Woodruff of ABC and Kimberly Dozier of CBS makes the likelihood of the use of local stringers even higher.

Third, the stories that are filed by reporters in the field very seldom reach the American public as written. An anecdote from Col. McMaster illustrates this dramatically. TIME magazine recently sent a reporter to spend six weeks with the 3rd ACR as they were in the battle of Tal Afar. When the battle was over, the reporter filed his story and also included close to 100 pictures that the accompanying photographer took. TIME published a cover story on the battle a week later, allegedly using the story sent in by their reporter. When the issue came out, the guts had been edited out of their reporter's story and none of the pictures he submitted were used. Instead they showed a weeping child on the cover, taken from stock photos. When the reporter questioned why his story was eviscerated, his editors in New York responded that the story and pictures were "too heroic". McMaster had read both and told me that the editors had completely changed the thrust and context of the material their reporter had submitted.

As a sidebar on the public affairs situation, Colonel Bob McRee, who was also on the panel and is bringing a Military Police Battalion to Iraq next month, invited the Colorado Springs Gazette to send a reporter with the battalion for six weeks to two months. He assured the Gazette, in writing one month ago, that he would provide full time bodyguards for the reporter, taking the manpower out of his own hide. The Gazette has yet to respond to his offer.

Ten More Years: The idea that we will have troops in Iraq for ten more years sounds rather grim, even though by contrast, President Clinton sent troops to Bosnia and Kosovo nearly ten years ago. And they're still there with no end in sight. While Iraq is clearly a different situation right now, the panelists believe that within a few years at the most, it will become very much the same - a peace keeping, nation building function among factions that have hated one another for centuries. There is factionalism and there was bitter fighting in the Balkans before NATO intervened and with peace keepers, the panelists believe that Iraq will be a parallel situation. This, by the way, is why they all believe that linguists and civil affairs military personnel are so necessary for the future.

Colonel S. went out on a limb by suggesting that if most of the troops in Iraq were deployed home "tomorrow" he could have the entire country "pacified" and the terrorist situation brought under control with just one brigade of special forces. Since these guys are linguists, civil affairs experts, among many other skills and talents, he may not be too far wrong.

Iraqi Attitudes: The panelists agreed that the public affairs problem manifests itself most significantly in the American public belief that the people of Iraq want us out of their country which we are occupying. They have served in different parts of the country but each agreed that we are wanted and needed there. I refer you to the anecdote from Col. McMaster and the thousands of pictures available on the internet of the U.S. forces shown in very cordial relations with the locals. Of course, our media's obsession with Abu Graib and, if the initial reports regarding the small group of Marines at Haditha prove to be true, then those attitudes will change somewhat. But as one of the panelists pointed out, the atrocities suffered under Saddam were much worse and much more common.

Morale and Capabilities: Two weeks ago, the local TV channels showed a 3rd ACR re-enlistment ceremony held at Ft. Carson and officiated by Colonel McMaster. Mind you, this unit has just returned from a one-year combat tour of hard and bloody fighting in Iraq and will likely return there again in eight to ten months. Of the 670 soldiers eligible for re-enlistment, 654 of them held up their right hands and signed on for another four years.

Incredible!

The Army goal for re-enlistments for fiscal year 2006 was for 40,000 soldiers to extend their active duty commitments. With four months remaining in the fiscal year, they have already exceeded their goal of 40,000 and may have to go back to Congress for authorization to exceed their force structure manning limitations. Since Congress has been pontificating for the past couple of years that the Army is woefully under strength, that should not pose any difficulty.

Iraqi Forces: Every one of the returning commanders had experience in joint operations with the Iraqi soldiers - and in the case of some of them, with the local and national police. They are all are supportive of the quality of the forces, but culturally, they believe that we may be expecting too much from them as a pre-condition for handing over greater responsibility for area control. McMaster said that he worked with the army and the police at Tal Afar and was not the least bit reluctant to assign major responsibilities to them in the operations that were conducted.

Col. S.'s Green Berets, on the other hand, caught a national police lieutenant who was directing the emplacement of an IED by cell phone in order to disrupt a convoy - immediately after the lieutenant had been briefed on the convoy's route. The good news in this situation was that they were able to reroute the convoy, safely, and track the lieutenant's entire network through the use of the speed dial on his phone. Having terrorist infiltrators in both the army and the police force remains a problem. But by no means does that detract from the courage and determination of those who are loyal to the new Iraq.

Explosive Devices: The combined command in Iraq is becoming increasingly effective in countering the significant threat posed by the IEDs and EFPs.

The frequency of attacks has decreased in large part through training to recognize the threat, the new technology (UAVs - unmanned aerial vehicles or drones, for example) which help to discover where the devices are emplaced, the infiltration of some of the terrorist cells, etc. However, the technology being used by the terrorists is also improving measurably. In the past six weeks, two bomb making sites were found, raided and the bad guys arrested. In both cases, the head bomb makers were master's degree graduates (one in chemistry and one in physics) from American universities.

That's a lot of brain power to bring into the fight, but we also have some pretty talented people in the military, industry and academia who are doing their best to even the odds.

Conclusion: This is more than I had intended to write on the subject - so what's new a lot of you might say - but it is a subject that doesn't get the proper balance from other sources, in my judgment at least. I trust the information that we received far more than anything that I have heard or seen in our usual news sources. The most disturbing thing that I heard was that our MSM is changing the stories filed by their own people on the scene because they sound "too heroic".

The over riding opinion that I came away from the conference with is that we have incredibly talented and professional leaders who are facing up to the challenges and are making inexorable progress toward the goals of our nation. We're fortunate to have courageous and valorous people on the combat front, even though there seems to be a serious dearth of these same types of people in Congress and the mainstream media.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/

June 2006

Prime Minister Maliki Is Focused On Taking Immediate Actions In Three Areas:

1. Improve security by both military and political actions; secure Baghdad; eliminate armed gangs; and promote national reconciliation and the rule of law.
2. Immediately build economic and government capacity; increase production of oil and electricity; and build a foundation for prosperity.
3. Engage the nations of the region and the world in Iraq's democratic and economic development.
...
Examples Of Specific Actions The U.S. Government Will Take In The Short Term To Advance The Iraqi Government Plan[/u]

Securing Baghdad:
The Prime Minister has made the security of Baghdad his top priority. He has briefed the U.S. government on his campaign to crack down on the violence and at the same time promote reconciliation.
Coalition Action: Prime Minister Maliki will soon announce more specifics of his plan to secure Baghdad. The President will provide, through the Commander, MNF-I, 12 battalions (approximately 7,200 troops) of Coalition forces in Baghdad to support 36 battalions of Iraqi Army forces (approximately 26,000) and nearly 23,000 Iraqi police who will work together to secure the city. Their goal will be to deny terrorists safe haven in areas around Baghdad and to deny terrorists freedom of movement in the city.

Securing Ramadi:
Terrorists/insurgents have been focusing on destabilizing Ramadi, the provincial capital of Anbar, both to undermine the government in that province and as a transfer point and staging ground for attacks elsewhere.
Coalition Action: Coalition forces are working with the Iraqi Government to stabilize the city by keeping the pressure on terrorists/insurgents while recruiting, training, and fielding Iraqi army units to serve in and around Ramadi. A locally recruited police force is also being built.

Building Confidence In Iraq's Security Forces:
Prime Minister Maliki is committed to both increasing public confidence in Iraqi security forces and improving the ability of those forces to take the lead in and eventually responsibility for the security of Iraq.
Coalition Action: The Coalition has embedded Transition Teams in Iraqi Police and Military units to assist in the professionalization of Iraqi Security Forces and to help them achieve Prime Minister Maliki's goals. These teams will also help inculcate ethical and professional standards. The Department of Defense has interagency advisory teams in place, working with the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior to build administrative capacity. Now that Iraq's new Ministers of Defense and Interior are in place, our advisory teams will assist them in building internal affairs bureaus, Inspector General functions, and other capabilities.

Judicial Capacity:
Prime Minister Maliki recognizes that a secure and prosperous society requires a functioning and independent judiciary. A society needs courts, prosecutors, investigators, and correctional facilities to enforce the rule of law, deter violence, prosecute wrongdoers, and justly punish the guilty.
Coalition Action: The State, Defense, and Justice Departments have produced a comprehensive rule of law initiative to build on past efforts to strengthen the Iraqi judicial system. The initiative builds on what has already been accomplished in the judicial sector with special emphasis on increasing the number of trained and qualified judges; ensuring those judges have adequate security to do their work; providing technical assistance to the Higher Juridical Council (which oversees the Iraqi judiciary); enhancing prison capacity to meet international standards; completing the training of Iraqi correctional personnel; and integrating the roles of police, courts, and prisons to act under one rule of law. In addition, we will be working with the European Union, the United Nations, and other international partners to provide technical assistance to Iraqi legislators as they work to complete important judiciary laws called for under Iraq's new constitution. These initiatives are being developed in consultation with the Iraqi government and a comprehensive strategic plan will be presented to top Iraqi officials -- including the Prime Minister and Iraq's Chief Justice -- later this month.

Bringing Armed Groups Under Control Of The Government:
The Prime Minister intends to develop a plan to ensure that no entities outside the Iraqi government wield force in Iraq. His strategy will involve enforcing existing laws against illegal armed groups and dedicating additional resources to ensure members of militias have an alternative means of supporting themselves and their families.
Coalition Action: Coalition leaders are working with the new Iraqi government to implement a program to disarm, demobilize, and reintegrate members of militias and other illegal armed groups. To overcome these armed gangs, Iraqi forces must be better equipped than their adversaries and easily distinguishable from them. Multi-National Forces, working closely with the NATO Training Mission, are providing the training, mentoring, and equipment needed to stand up a professional, volunteer, trained, and equipped Iraqi Security Force capable of taking the lead for internal security and over time the lead for Iraq's entire security. The President directed General Casey and Ambassador Khalilzad to coordinate with the new Ministers of Interior and Defense as well as provincial governments to determine what additional steps should be taken to ensure that Iraqi forces have a military edge over those they are fighting.

Reconciliation:
Prime Minister Maliki has called on all Iraqis to overcome ethnic and sectarian differences and forge a new path as the free people of Iraq. The President congratulated him on his efforts to unify the Iraqi people, including the release of more than 2,500 detainees. The Prime Minister has said he will appoint a reconciliation committee to focus on resolving specific concerns of Iraq's diverse communities. The United Nations has a team in Baghdad focused on bridging divides and resolving differences between groups peacefully.
Coalition Action: Any reconciliation effort must be Iraqi-led for it to succeed. At the same time, the United States is supporting the efforts of NGOs and other institutions to bring Iraqi leaders together with leaders from other countries, such as South Africa, so that Iraqis can benefit from the experience of others. We are also intensively engaged with countries in the region to urge them to reach out to Iraq's communities to encourage national dialogue, full participation in Iraq's political process, and the renunciation of violence. Finally, we welcome initiatives by other international bodies to provide forums to bring Iraqis together.

On Economic And Government Capacity-Building:

Revitalized Economy:
The Prime Minister is committed to a policy of national revitalization. This demands the creation of a new economic framework that rewards innovation and investment and the removal of market distortions that abet smuggling and corruption. Today the President welcomed Prime Minister Maliki's plan to spur growth and create a better investment environment.
Coalition Action: The President has asked the Treasury Department to send additional professionals to Iraq to provide technical support for creation of a public finance system that is accountable and transparent. The State Department will coordinate a broad effort to support an economic policy framework that enhances investment, job creation and growth. The President has also asked Secretary of Agriculture Michael Johanns to travel to Iraq to meet with his Department's counterparts and determine what additional actions the United States can take to help return Iraq to its former status as a breadbasket for the region.

Oil And Electricity:
Insurgents and terrorists have tried to cripple Iraq's economy by crippling its oil industry. Prime Minister Maliki is committed to sustainable oil exports and improving the delivery of electricity.
Coalition Action: The President has directed Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman and Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez to travel to Iraq and work with their counterparts to identify what further assistance from the U.S. government is needed to help the Iraqi government increase oil production and electricity generation. General Casey and Ambassador Khalilzad will work with Iraq's new ministers to continue the effort to build rapid repair teams and to create new initiatives to protect key infrastructure nodes. We are providing resources and technical expertise to the Oil and Electricity ministries for the development of operation and management practices. We are working with the ministries on steps such as metering and the tagging of trucks to increase transparency and efficiency and reduce corruption in the oil industry. We are encouraging other oil-producing countries, in particular Iraq's neighbors, to provide their technical expertise and know-how to help Iraq sustain and expand oil production and exports. And we are engaged with the Iraqis in refurbishing oil wells in the south to ensure predictable oil exports and increase Iraq's overall capacity.

On Engaging The Nations Of The World In Iraq's Success:

International Compact:
The international community has made pledges to support Iraq's fledgling democracy, but many are unfilled. It is time for the international community to meet its obligations. Prime Minister Maliki is asking international organizations to take the lead with his government in developing a compact between the international community and the Iraqi government and people. This compact will bind actions by Iraq to actions by other countries and international institutions, and make Iraq's success a shared objective and commitment. The Prime Minister envisions a compact in which Iraq will undertake a series of political, economic, and security steps in exchange for more robust political and financial support from the international community.
Coalition Action: The President directed his Cabinet to work with the international community to build this compact with Iraq. The President designated Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Robert Kimmitt to lead these efforts. Deputy Secretary Kimmitt will be supported by State Department Counselor Philip Zelikow and other senior U.S. government officials. They will travel soon to the United Nations and then to Iraq for consultations, and then will travel -- as necessary -- to Europe, Asia and the Middle East to build support for the compact. This effort is expected to culminate in a conference later this year where the Iraqi government can lay out its commitments and engage the financial, technical, and other support of a broad group of nations to continue rebuilding its country.

cicerone imposter: Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:48 pm Post: 2130462 - wrote:

ican, ... it doesn't matter what I think; it matters a whole lot what Arabs/Muslims think. ...

I infer, cice, that you think:
(1) "it doesn't matter what [you] think";

(2) "it matters a whole lot what Arabs/Muslims think".

A statement by the U.S.-led coalition on Tuesday attacked "the release of the video in the strongest of terms; it demonstrates the barbaric and brutal nature of the terrorists and their complete disregard for human life."

"Coalition Forces remain resolute in our in commitment to catch the perpetrators of this crime and bring them to justice."

The video, posted Monday, also came with a statement that linked the killings of the soldiers with the alleged rape of an Iraqi female in March.

CNN cannot independently authenticate the video, which does not show the actual killings of the soldiers.

"This video is issued and presented as a revenge for our sister who was dishonored by one of the soldiers of the same brigade that these two soldiers belonged to," reads the statement posted along with the video.