Abortion

I've known (and know) a lot of raped females. I can't imagine that a single one of them would like to meet JC - at least, when they knew his opinion.

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Walter,

I hardly think any woman that was raped would want anything to do with the rapist. I was talking about the situations where it was consensual sex and a child was conceived.

Sorry I did not make that clear.

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echi wrote:

DTOM--

Thank you for not ripping me a new one. I appreciate your respect.

'welcome, echi. that would get us nowhere. i try to be nice until it's time to not be. Very Happy

echi wrote:

The way I understand it, the possibility of an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy is a big part of why the crimes of rape and incest are so heinous.

mmm, maybe.

but from what i've heard and read, rape has zero to do with sex as gratification for the rapist.

sex is used as a weapon. intimidation, visiting rage on an aquaintance or a stranger, or simply payback for a perceived or real slight.

considering that sex is the most intimate interaction people can have, to be forced into it by fear or force must be incredibly damaging.

how can the woman ever engage in sex again without some memory of that violation wafting around?

it just seems to me like it's terribly unkind, uncompassionate, to compound that injury further my forcing a woman to bear a resulting child against her will, because your (not you personally), beliefs, faith or religion etc. say she should.

but, if she did feel like she could carry, birth and raise that child without ill wiil, i would support her in that decision.

which, of course, would then lead to the question of how her husband would feel about that child. a daily reminder of his wife's assault.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've known (and know) a lot of raped females. I can't imagine that a single one of them would like to meet JC - at least, when they knew his opinion.

What the F#ck is that supposed to mean??? Are you comparing me with a rapist now???

I would never try to tell a woman who has been raped that she should keep the baby.

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John Creasy wrote:

I would never try to tell a woman who has been raped that she should keep the baby.

Maybe not, but you would tell her that she should have the baby.

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joefromchicago wrote:

John Creasy wrote:
I would never try to tell a woman who has been raped that she should keep the baby.

Maybe not, but you would tell her that she should have the baby.

Uh, no I wouldn't. The only time I said I would fight to keep a baby from being aborted is if it was consentually conceived by ME and a woman. I might not like abortion, but I wouldn't try to tell a woman that doesn't carry my baby anything. Let alone a woman that was raped. Comprende???

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John Creasy wrote:

Uh, no I wouldn't. The only time I said I would fight to keep a baby from being aborted is if it was consentually conceived by ME and a woman. I might not like abortion, but I wouldn't try to tell a woman that doesn't carry my baby anything. Let alone a woman that was raped. Comprende???

Even if the rapist-father offered to take and raise the baby?

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joefromchicago wrote:

John Creasy wrote:
Uh, no I wouldn't. The only time I said I would fight to keep a baby from being aborted is if it was consentually conceived by ME and a woman. I might not like abortion, but I wouldn't try to tell a woman that doesn't carry my baby anything. Let alone a woman that was raped. Comprende???

Even if the rapist-father offered to take and raise the baby?

Don't be an ass dude.

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Abortion

FreeDuck wrote:

Well, to an extent, I agree with MA. The primary responsibility is the woman's because it is her body. And that's precisely why nobody else should be able to decide whether or not she can have an abortion.

RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MOAN 's responses leads me to believe "she" is a "he".

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mimilaura wrote:

MOAN 's responses leads me to believe "she" is a "he".

Your belief would be dead wrong then. I am a 50 year old married woman.

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Re: Abortion

mimilaura wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
Well, to an extent, I agree with MA. The primary responsibility is the woman's because it is her body. And that's precisely why nobody else should be able to decide whether or not she can have an abortion.

RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whether or not having an abortion is a life-altering event, having a baby certainly is, and I can understand why a woman would want to have control over events that can alter her life, but control over life-altering events is not a basic right bestowed upon us by our constitution, and so while this may be the underlying reason for the move to make and keep abortion legal, it can't be the legal one.

A great significance is placed on this life-altering event involving the woman's body. The question, of course, is does it also involve the body of another human being or is the body of the fetus merely a part of the body of the mother?

This isn't a question we can answer in this forum, nor is it one we can rely upon authorities and experts to answer.

I can't help but find it difficult to believe though that a large number of the people who profess believing that a fetus does not share the humanity of its mother and father have no doubts in this regard.

In a situation where there is uncertainty, passionate disagreement, and dramatic consequences, restraint is often the best course to take. When 48% of women having abortions have had at least one other, it doesn't appear that restraint is in play.

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mimilaura wrote:

MOAN 's responses leads me to believe "she" is a "he".

And I was about to welcome you to A2K.

Just hatched and already snapping your beak at your elders.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I have personal experience with this. I was raped when I was a very young teen. I became pregnant. I knew it was a child from the moment I knew I was pregnant. I did not for one second think of an abortion.

I lost the baby in my fifth month. I would have loved that child. That child was part of me no matter who the father was. I would have been nothing less than selfish if I had not given that child a chance at life. That child did not ask to be created. True, in cases of rape, the woman does not ask for the child to be conceived. But, once it is, I believe she should take the high road and deliver that child.

She can always give it up for adoption. There are so many people that want a child and cannot have them.

And John Creasy, I know you would step up to the plate and take care of your child. I wish more men would do the same.

"I would have been nothing less than selfish if I had not given that child a chance at life."

This is the Big Guilt Card. "If you don't bear the child and do as 'we' want you to, you are a selfish person."
BS!
I don't think it's selfish to make a choice that is different from what certain individuals have deemed is 'right' or 'good'.
No one should be bombarded with such B-****.
Especially someone who has undergone a traumatic event.
Teenagers, and those with low self-esteem are especially vulnerable to this crap. It's nonsense.
The woman should be empowered, not degraded.

Bottom line is always: It is a woman's body to do with as she likes.

John Creasy -
Is there any room in your mind to reconsider the other sides of the story?
You keep hammering away, and I just don't see the sense in it.
Unless you live somewhere where women are seen as 'less-than' full fledged human beings, you opinions are mute.

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flushd,

You misunderstand. No one told me I had to keep the baby. No one even suggested it to me. I made the decision. My mother was all for aborting it (even though she is against abortion). I and I alone made the decision to carry that child.

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Oh, I understood MA.

I was commenting on your own thoughts and words that you posted.

We are both passionate about this issue, I know that. I will make an effort not to pick on you. There are simply something words said that I can not leave unaddressed.

Smile

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flushd,

I am not worried about you picking on me. If you have more to say about this I am more than willing to listen.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Yes, I agree a woman has the right over her own body. But, I do not agree she has that right at the expense of another's life.[/b][/color]

Define life.

When does it begin?

When does it end?

Abortion, as it seems, is not so much as an issue of ethics, legalities, or murder. It's an issue of definition.

I define life as being in an on-going state of self-dependency. At the point in a pregnancy where a baby, if removed from the room, could survive, then it is technically alive. If it has been conceived, but still an egg, it is not technically alive in my book.

Define it. Then begin your debate.

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John Creasy wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
John Creasy wrote:
I would never try to tell a woman who has been raped that she should keep the baby.

Maybe not, but you would tell her that she should have the baby.

Uh, no I wouldn't. The only time I said I would fight to keep a baby from being aborted is if it was consentually conceived by ME and a woman. I might not like abortion, but I wouldn't try to tell a woman that doesn't carry my baby anything. Let alone a woman that was raped. Comprende???

I'm sorry. You seemed to be Pro-Life for a while here. This conclusion makes you Pro-Choice. Please make up your mind.

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I think only certain women who are physically ideal for child bearing and are attractive and have a minimum IQ of 110 should be allowed to be impregnated.

The remaining attractive women or women generously endowed in erotic areas should be kept as concubines for men, and all other women should be utilized as domestic or agricultural laborers and of course be sterilized.

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