1
   

My girlfriend believes in God

 
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 03:41 am
stuh505 wrote:


Quote:
If a woman wears a miniskirt and halter top and looks sexy, should she expect to get raped? I realize that's extreme but it's along the same lines. The responsibility for our actions lies with us. Not with what someone else does or doesn't do that they should expect anything.


If a woman dresses this way, of course she must realize that it is increasing her chances of being sexually "harassed" (or hit on) and possibly raped...as you say yourself, we must take responsibility for our own actions. We cannot ignore the worst in people. If you drive a nice car in the city, you must expect to be robbed if you don't lock it.


Here's where the whole rape thing was first mentioned, that I could find.

This is what I got:

Momma: Trying to live life with positive expectations (God will come through if you do right)
Stuh: Live life according to knowledge of possible negative causes, as well as positive, and adjust accordingly. If something bad happens, it's on your back not any higher power's.

Actually, I think this is just a long tortured attempted to call someone stupid , Stuh. "If you aren't smart enough to prevent a bad thing happening, or you go out of your way to live disregarding the possible dangers, you are responsible for what happens". Basically, you are saying "they deserve it if they are that stupid".

That's my take. And it went bad when the concept of rape got pulled in. I have doubts that stuh would hold that idea in the face of a loved one who was raped.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 07:46 am
stuh505 wrote:
Gosh, it's as if you people don't even read what I say. At least have the decency to read back 2-3 pages! I can tell from your responses that you have not because you would know that was not my belief if you had


You said that a woman is partially responsible for being raped in some situations. I say you are wrong. Dead, freaking wrong.

What part of that don't you get? That's like saying I was partially responsible for being hit by a drunk driver because I was out on the road.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 07:47 am
flushd wrote:

I have doubts that stuh would hold that idea in the face of a loved one who was raped.


Then why no compassion for a stranger? Rape is rape is rape is rape. I think it takes a callous person to associate any blame on the victim.

Circumstance does not constitute responsibility.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 09:13 am
All three of you are reading what you expect to hear. You have all completely misunderstood me...and I am tired of explaining it, so I'm not going to anymore.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 09:22 am
stuh505 wrote:
All three of you are reading what you expect to hear. You have all completely misunderstood me...and I am tired of explaining it, so I'm not going to anymore.


Perhaps if you didn't continue to say that there is a partial responsibility somewhere with the woman we wouldn't "misunderstand" you.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 09:28 am
Stuh, let's go back 2-3 pages like you asked and see what you've written that would lead us to this hideous misinformed opinion of you.

Quote:
IF a person puts themself into a situation which they know will increase their risks of something unfortunate happening, THEN they are partially responsible for those actions happening...you deny this?


Quote:
Is there something fundamentally different about rape from any other event, or is it simply impossible for a woman to be responsible for anything at all?


Quote:
I never ever said that all women are responsible for their rape. All I ever said was that it is possible to conceive of a rape situation in which the woman shares responsibility.


Quote:

A woman CAN ask to be raped.


Quote:

The man is not ultimately responsible.


Quote:
Likewise, a woman who jumps into the path of a rapist knowing that she will be raped, is partly responsible with the rapist.


Quote:
Causes -> Reactions

If something that a person did is part of the causes, or something they could have done is part of the causes, then they have some responsibility greater than 0 for all reactions.


Now, what part of any of those statements says anything contradictory to what we've been saying about you? You have clearly announced that the blame lies partially with the victim.
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 10:44 am
Quote:
Now, what part of any of those statements says anything contradictory to what we've been saying about you? You have clearly announced that the blame lies partially with the victim.


To answer this question would take an excessive amount of work on my part due to the high number of misinterpretations. This is why I have let most of them slip by uncommented on.

Perhaps, instead of going into all that, I could once more try to explain the root of the confusion:

1) I have not yet mentioned any opinions on rape. Everything I have said so far has been about my definition of the word responsibility.

2) my definition of responsibility is something of an equation that represents a combination of which people contributed, could have contributed, and should have contributed

3) the value of responsibility is not necessarily linked to deserve or sympathy. therefore, if i consider a rape victim to have 0.1% responsibility and the rapist to have 99.9% responsibility, that does not mean that i think the person deserved it 0.1%, nor does it mean that they will only get 99.9% of my sympathy.

4) an event is specified by the facts, and events are categorized into groups such as a "rape" event. the fact that the event is considered "rape" is simply linguistic and has no meaning whatsoever. many people would not even agree on where the boundaries of this linguistic word lie. the only thing that matters are the facts of the event, and thus I find it extremely foolish to say that "all rapes have exactly the same responsibility distriution, and should have the same punishment and sympathy distributions."

5) I am not a rapist, I don't condone rape, but I have experienced negative effects of it so you can stop making me the rapist or saying things like "if you had been raped, you would think differently."
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 10:48 am
Well, I think that 0% of the responsibility lies with the rape survivor, in any rape case. So I guess we do differ in opinion.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 11:54 am
Bella Dea wrote:
Well, I think that 0% of the responsibility lies with the rape survivor, in any rape case. So I guess we do differ in opinion.

Bella Dea,

I'm behind you 150% on this one! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:11 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Well, I think that 0% of the responsibility lies with the rape survivor, in any rape case. So I guess we do differ in opinion.

Bella Dea,

I'm behind you 150% on this one! Very Happy


How's my butt look in these jeans?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:21 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Bella Dea wrote:
Well, I think that 0% of the responsibility lies with the rape survivor, in any rape case. So I guess we do differ in opinion.

Bella Dea,

I'm behind you 150% on this one! Very Happy


How's my butt look in these jeans?

Looooooooooking gooooooooooooooood! Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:23 pm
I am trying to keep things light because I am sort of a bitch today. Smile
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 02:01 pm
Bella Dea wrote:
I am trying to keep things light because I am sort of a bitch today. Smile


Bella Dea,

Not buying that for a second. I would never consider you a B in any way. Hey, we all have our bad days :wink: .
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 02:04 pm
Oh, I can admit that I am. Laughing People just say it like it's a bad thing.

Very Happy :wink:
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 02:09 pm
I, myself, prefer to call them bad hair days! :wink:
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 06:49 pm
Whateva.

Laughing
0 Replies
 
stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 09:06 pm
According to the definition of the word responsibility that I have been using, Bella Dea, flushd, and the rest of you all would consider many rape victims to be responsible.

The difference is that you all apparently use a very different definition for the word responsibility, and you don't seem to listen when I say that you and I mean completely different things when we say "responsibility."

My hair looks aight today. Smile
0 Replies
 
sakhi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 10:58 pm
stuh505 wrote:
Quote:

3) the value of responsibility is not necessarily linked to deserve or sympathy. therefore, if i consider a rape victim to have 0.1% responsibility and the rapist to have 99.9% responsibility, that does not mean that i think the person deserved it 0.1%, nor does it mean that they will only get 99.9% of my sympathy.

5) I am not a rapist, I don't condone rape, but I have experienced negative effects of it so you can stop making me the rapist or saying things like "if you had been raped, you would think differently."


You know something - I heard a muslim cleric on TV say the same thing to justify the use of a burkha. He said womenwear the burkha becuase they did not want to be "responsible" for men leching at them or wanting to rape them....!!
0 Replies
 
n2soccer21
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 11:47 pm
Stuh505,

I havn't read all of the responses, but I think you're missing the point of all this. Being religeous should never be ridiculed. She may be confused about a lot of things, religeously, but she needs to figure them out without non-believers help. The fact is, evolution is very possible. According to the Bible, God created all in 6 days and rested on the 7th. It's obvious that these are not "Earth days", but distinct periods of time, hence evolution. Maybe the one who's irrational is you. You say that if she did not assign a specific title to this "source" that you would be alright with it; why? Just because she has a book with God's word makes it unacceptable? Like you, I am a very practical person, never accepting anything unless I've personally and thoroughly examined it. I recomend you look at the Bible.

You're a comp sci, so maybe this scenario will help explain things. Imagine you design and create this something, maybe a robot of some sort, that could do incredible things. Maybe it can save people from a burning building, maybe it can single-handedly win wars; whatever it may be, imagine that it becomes World famous. Everyone exalts this masterpiece for it's superiority, but no one has ever heard of you; you get no credit at all. That's the way God feels about everyone. He created all of us and simply asks that we glorify Him through Jesus Christ. He has given us so much; the least we could do is thank Him for everything. Do you know the meaning of life? Get ready for it; here it is. We were put on this planet to give glory to God and nothing else. It's as simple as that. He will grant you second life if you simply believe in His son Jesus Christ as our savior.

I hope I helped. Good luck.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Jan, 2006 07:11 pm
n2soccer21 wrote:
Being religeous should never be ridiculed.
Why? If I was to believe in alien abductions & UFO's, do you not think I would be due some ridicule?
0 Replies
 
 

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