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O'Reilly - "Very Secret Plan to Diminish Christianity"

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 08:31 pm
I guess I see xenophobia as that kind of instinctive "I prefer my herd/what is familiar" stuff.

Racism would grow out of that, but is more organized, with a huge system of rationalizations supporting it, as I see it.

Also, one can be xenophobic when race is not a factor.....eg "Arrrrr, them folks from that thar next village be moighty queer, they be, arrrrrr."
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 10:14 pm
Lash wrote:
If I had to choose one song, I guess you could say, the one that embodies my philosophy of life, these lyrics can be applied to most any situation:

Oh- baby now let's get down tonight.
Baby, I'm hot just like your oven.
Oh- I need your lovin'
And baby, I can't hold it much longer
Now it's getting stronger and stronger
And when I get that feeling
I need a sexual healing, sexual healing
And makes me feel so fine
And helps to release the mind
Sexual healing, is good for me
Sexual healing is something that's very good for me


Ah yes. Bask in the timeless message.


Amigo-- You don't appreciate my philosophy? I thought I was the conservative...

What's your philosophy?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 11:09 pm
http://www.planetkilmer.com/rr/january2002/bj/doc.jpg
Bask in the timeless message!!
0 Replies
 
cyphercat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 01:16 am
okay, I'm just reading along and not getting involved, and this has nothing to do with the topic, but I gotta know-- what does Val Kilmer as Doc Holliday have to do with anything??
0 Replies
 
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:49 am
Thanks for reminding me of why Christmas is such bu!!**** and why we should just consign it to the dustheap of history and all get on with our lives.


The 'godless UN', Doc Holiday, Dagoes, Iagoes and little lambsey ragouts!


If the USA can act with aggression to 'disarm' a nation's WMDs, then the rest of us can just as easily junk all this tinsel-bollocks and shoot it into the Sun or something.....
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 04:58 am
dlowan wrote:
I guess I see xenophobia as that kind of instinctive "I prefer my herd/what is familiar" stuff.

Racism would grow out of that, but is more organized, with a huge system of rationalizations supporting it, as I see it.

Also, one can be xenophobic when race is not a factor.....eg "Arrrrr, them folks from that thar next village be moighty queer, they be, arrrrrr."


But that seems quite the common description of conflict between religious communities where, again, race isn't a factor.

I guess I'm just not sure that parsing in this manner gets us the proper perspective on what seems to me to be facets of the same critter.

Whether it is skin color or clothing or accent or sacred icon, etc, in each case some difference is discerned or claimed. By itself, no problem. (New York is a wonderful example of differences with little bad consequence, at least presently).

But then something else gets stacked on top - the valuation of 'bad', 'wrong', 'dangerous', 'enemy', etc.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 05:23 am
dlowan wrote:
I guess I see xenophobia as that kind of instinctive "I prefer my herd/what is familiar" stuff.

Racism would grow out of that, but is more organized, with a huge system of rationalizations supporting it, as I see it.

Also, one can be xenophobic when race is not a factor.....eg "Arrrrr, them folks from that thar next village be moighty queer, they be, arrrrrr."


I think racism is a particularly vicious form of xenophobia. You might detest someone wearing the WRONG FOOTBALL SHIRT, but if he takes it off AND PUTS ON A MORE APPROPRIATE SHIRT, and you still detest him because of who he is and not particularly because of his cultural affilliations then that's bordering on racism.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 05:35 am
blatham wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I guess I see xenophobia as that kind of instinctive "I prefer my herd/what is familiar" stuff.

Racism would grow out of that, but is more organized, with a huge system of rationalizations supporting it, as I see it.

Also, one can be xenophobic when race is not a factor.....eg "Arrrrr, them folks from that thar next village be moighty queer, they be, arrrrrr."


But that seems quite the common description of conflict between religious communities where, again, race isn't a factor.

I guess I'm just not sure that parsing in this manner gets us the proper perspective on what seems to me to be facets of the same critter.

Whether it is skin color or clothing or accent or sacred icon, etc, in each case some difference is discerned or claimed. By itself, no problem. (New York is a wonderful example of differences with little bad consequence, at least presently).

But then something else gets stacked on top - the valuation of 'bad', 'wrong', 'dangerous', 'enemy', etc.



You are right that its not just cultural differences. We do ascribe values to the "other", almost inevitably inferior to our own. But hang on a minute, does that mean all cultures are equally worthy of respect? There is a problem here with Christian groups originating from Kenya who believe some children are possessed by the devil. Social services were reluctant to intervene....result many cases of appalling child cruelty. Some satanic/animist religious groups actually sacrifice children. Are we to ascribe the value judgement BAD...of course. How about cramming a boys head with the Koran, is that child abuse? Or animal sacrifice/kosher meat production?

Its not just value judgements either. If a child tells you the world is 6000 years old and was created in 7 days, what are you supposed to do, say nothing and hope he grows out of it, or start to explain how we can actually measure the age of the earth and its a lot older than 6000 years?

Some ideas are actually superior than others imo.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 08:34 am
They've done some interesting social experiments on this.

Take a random group of people, randomly assign two colored shirts, suddenly the group sorts itself based on the shirts. Weird. And there are social consequences for associating with the other color.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 09:09 am
I think it is appropriate, now that Steve has broached the subject, to take on the Political Rectitude Gestapo and acknowledge the necessity for cultural discrimination. If you completely excoriate someone's thesis in these fora, so long as you have told an @sshole that he or she is an @sshole, you are within the terms of service. In all seriousness, it is possible to condemn a practice without condemning an entire ethnic group, just as it is possible to condemn an idea without condemning the person giving voice to the idea.

So, i would consider the comdemnation of all Muslims simply because they are Muslims to be a prejudice equivalent to racism. I would not consider the condemnation of infantile female genital mutilation to be reprehensible or forbidden simply because that brutal tribal practice is defended by someone asserting that it is a part of the culture of some Muslims, and therefore said condemnation constitutes religious bigotry.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 10:18 am
Yes, steve brings up a hell of a good point, set. I'm not sure why I have such difficulty teasing this whole matter apart, but I do.

A big part of the problem might be that the sorts of differences we consider benign (if we aren't something like a racist) such as hair color or language are often, perhaps almost always, accompanied by behavior/cultural/value differences as well. It is something in this latter sphere which we might have valid moral protest regarding but we do a mental shortcut and use the physical identifier to represent the threat.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 11:48 am
uh oh
what to do
what to do

Shocked

Jeremiah 10

Quote:
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


someone's trying to trick us into putting up and decorating trees!
uh oh

<this Jeremiah reference came up at another site I frequent - Christians freaking out over pagan trees being part of "their" Christmas - it must be stopped!!!>
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:03 pm
Setanta wrote:
Can anyone provide me with a progress report on the dimunition of christianity? I am anxious to assure myself that we are making progress . . .


how's this? [size=7]christianity[/size]
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:42 pm
blatham wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I guess I see xenophobia as that kind of instinctive "I prefer my herd/what is familiar" stuff.

Racism would grow out of that, but is more organized, with a huge system of rationalizations supporting it, as I see it.

Also, one can be xenophobic when race is not a factor.....eg "Arrrrr, them folks from that thar next village be moighty queer, they be, arrrrrr."


But that seems quite the common description of conflict between religious communities where, again, race isn't a factor.

I guess I'm just not sure that parsing in this manner gets us the proper perspective on what seems to me to be facets of the same critter.

Whether it is skin color or clothing or accent or sacred icon, etc, in each case some difference is discerned or claimed. By itself, no problem. (New York is a wonderful example of differences with little bad consequence, at least presently).

But then something else gets stacked on top - the valuation of 'bad', 'wrong', 'dangerous', 'enemy', etc.



Yeah, but I think this whole discussion got started around whether it is racist, or not, to depict Jesus as a blond, blue eyed, rather androgynous looking critter, when the historical figure (if there was one) would look very different.

My sense is it might have started out as a bigotry based thing (anti Semitism and all), but now it is generally just an ignorance and/or tradition....and blindingly bad art (I had a look at some Jesus "art" sites...) thing.

But it's not like I'm an expert on Jesus depictions....


And, since I believe it's all projection of ourselves onto some god or other, it makes perfect sense in my eyes as a simple psychological mechanism, anyway.


Buddha isn't a god, BTW.


The Chinese depictions of Buddha, I believe, reflect their idea of bliss......I think they are the only culture to have a chubby one?


I doubt Buddha would give a toss. Buddhism has no problems adapting its waters to the shape of the stream bed....
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:45 pm
ehBeth wrote:
uh oh
what to do
what to do

Shocked

Jeremiah 10

Quote:
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.


someone's trying to trick us into putting up and decorating trees!
uh oh

<this Jeremiah reference came up at another site I frequent - Christians freaking out over pagan trees being part of "their" Christmas - it must be stopped!!!>


Oh my!!!


I am more intrigued, frankly, that they had to nail the trees down to stop them moving.

I take it modern trees are way less frisky and inclined to wander?

Who knew?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:51 pm
yitwail wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Can anyone provide me with a progress report on the dimunition of christianity? I am anxious to assure myself that we are making progress . . .


how's this? [size=7]christianity[/size]



Hmmm . . . well, i can still read it, but you deserve credit for the effort . . .
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:56 pm
Setanta wrote:
I think it is appropriate, now that Steve has broached the subject, to take on the Political Rectitude Gestapo and acknowledge the necessity for cultural discrimination. If you completely excoriate someone's thesis in these fora, so long as you have told an @sshole that he or she is an @sshole, you are within the terms of service. In all seriousness, it is possible to condemn a practice without condemning an entire ethnic group, just as it is possible to condemn an idea without condemning the person giving voice to the idea.

So, i would consider the comdemnation of all Muslims simply because they are Muslims to be a prejudice equivalent to racism. I would not consider the condemnation of infantile female genital mutilation to be reprehensible or forbidden simply because that brutal tribal practice is defended by someone asserting that it is a part of the culture of some Muslims, and therefore said condemnation constitutes religious bigotry.


thats exactly the point i was trying to make thanks Set
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 02:58 pm
dlowan wrote:
I am more intrigued, frankly, that they had to nail the trees down to stop them moving.

I take it modern trees are way less frisky and inclined to wander?

Who knew?


ummmmmmm, nowadays, we just put 'em in restraints

http://www.gardensandhome.com/Prod_images/ChristmasTreeStand.JPG


how do you keep yer trees from tippin' over?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 03:00 pm
is that one of condi's torture implements?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2005 03:01 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
is that one of condi's torture implements?


I'd respond, but then lash'd drop past and accuse me of being politically incorrect.

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
 

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