O'Reilly - "Very Secret Plan to Diminish Christianity"

I don't understand why some of you can't seem to understand what Lash is saying.

It seems to be perfectly ok for some to belittle others for their beliefs. But, when they are called on it, it is called humorous teasing? Well, it's not funny to me when anyone belittles me for my beliefs.

Just as no one likes to be belittled because of race or anything else. What is the difference? It seems to be ok for some at some times but not at others.

That is a double standard I have seen often in these threads. Not everyone does it, but plenty do.

Can


Easy

It won't reach for someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

Don't concern yourself with what you don't understand. Feel free to move along, or find out what the conversation is about--not that you really want to know.

I guess it's your turn to provide cover so she won't have to answer questions that prove she's wrong. You aren't doing he a favor. Let her answer the question.

It's hard for you to see how Lash's question was pure bait and when dlowan tried to answer it light-heartedly she brought out some bits from another unrelated conversation in an effort to trip her up? How you could read deb's post and take that to mean that she advocates belittling people (or inanimate objects) for their religion is beyond me. I'd love to have it clarified, but there will be no clarification here tonight it seems.

Otherwise known as the "don't worry your pretty little head" approach to life. I'm sure it's served you well but it won't work for me.

Most adults won't belittle a child for believing in Santa Clause either, but no adult who believes in Santa is going to be given the same free ride.

And beliefs aren't the same as race. That should be obvious. Beliefs are a choice and can be changed. Let's face it, what you look like doesn't matter, but what you think is what you are.

I have an idea. Let's play a game to break the tension. Let's each diminish another religion's holiday by renaming it. I'll start.

Rammalammadingdong. Who's next?

That's just my point. It's ok to belittle because of what someone believes? Dlowan thinks all Gods are ok to laugh at?

So, does this mean if you don't believe in God I could tell you how stupid, idiotic, etc., I may think that is? I think you'd probably not like it much, would you?

A person's religious beliefs are very sacred to them. Just for that reason alone, that person should be given respect. Now, I may point out things in that religion I don't agree with and why, but I will do my best to not ridicule someone because they believe.

I am so totally against the Muslim religion it is not funny. I believe their prophet was a pedophile. And, they are the ones that tell the story of him being married to a six year old. So, that is the worst I have ever said to anyone about what they believe.

We all have the right to believe the way we do WITHOUT fear of being made fun of. All of us. I don't think it is ok to laugh at anyone's God. It is the height of arrogance (IMO).

Christlemanizzle. Next!

We all have a choice to belittle or not. But I don't think you can assume that you get a free ride. Certainly not on an internet discussion board.

I prefer to challenge and debate most other views, but I must admit that if somone with a a tin foil hat is telling me the evil government's heat ray is cooking their brain, then I'm gonna give 'em some heat for wasting my time. It's all a matter of degree.

Pass over this, buddy!

Wrap that rosary around your neck!
Genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

To me that just means, you won't respect my rights to believe what I believe without believing you have the right to demean or belittle.

No one has that right. No one. We are given certain rights. Freedom of religion is one of them. Just as someone should not be belittled for being gay, no one should be belittled for being Christian, etc.

Whoa momma, they do have that right. Everyone in America has that right.

You think others have the right to belittle you for your beliefs? Who gives you that right? I don't. I don't give myself that right either. There is a right of free speech, yes. But you tell me, no, show me, where it says anyone has the right to belittle or demean anyone else.

Tell Bill O'Reilly that, momma

Actually, Momma, Freedom of Religion only means that you cannot be discriminated against in hiring, or that the government cannot make laws which favor one religion over others.

Individuals are still perfectly free to make comments disparaging other religions, and it is still legal.

You are correct as far as saying, however, that because we have Freedom of Religion, it has become to be viewed as very bad form to run down another person's religion. But believe it or not, in most cases to do so is quite legal.

I try to make a point to respect other people's religion myself, but I also made a post with some pointed comments about the Roman Catholic Church. I am sure not everyone liked it, but it was well within my rights to say it, and I felt it needed to be said.

Since when does society become so (I can't even think of a word for it) that it would think they could belittle and demean? Where does it end? There is racial discrimination, gender discrimination, etc. And now, it's ok to discriminate because of religion? Oh yeah, someone told me that was because religion is a choice and race and gender aren't. I don't find that much of a justification.

The fact is so many become up in arms about so many things. Why so up in arms about religion? Why is the ACLU fighting religion so adamantly? Do you think they would take on something where a Christian, Muslim, etc., would be the one being discriminated against? Seems to me, they are more for the ones that don't want God in their lives. Correct me if I am wrong.

Frankly, I'm tired of regligious bashing. I very nearly did it myself and I find that appalling.

Society has been belittling and demeaning since the word "go". Talk to a black person sometime. And they certainly aren't the only ones. Heck, our society only gave women the right to vote in 1920.




What do you call "discrimination"? You can't discriminate in hiring or on the workplace. And the Government cannot engage in practices which favor one religion over others.

But you seem to feel that "discrimination" means "to criticize publicly". and we do have that right. Of course, it is a two edged sword. Just as I have the right to criticize other religions, people sympathetic to those religions can fire me from my job, refuse to sell their house to me, cross the street to avoid me, and refuse to do business with me. All those things would be legal for them to do, just as it would be legal for me to criticize a religion.

Freedom of Religion means freedom from the government giving one religion and advantage over others, and not too much else.




Whether you want to admit it or not, there are those religions and religious leaders who are working very hard to establish the idea that because the majority of people favor one religion, the government facilities can be manipulated to extoll the virtues of that particular religion. The ACLU believes the government has no business promoting any religion at all-that is the individual's private life.



Government facilites are not to be used to bring religion into your life. they are there to be used by all people of all religions, who then are free to go home and practice their religion all day if they want.

When it comes to Lash's nasty games there is no clarification, FreeDuck, since her only aim is to be as unpleasant as she can manage, and without intent to have any sort of discussion, which is why I ignore her for the most part these days.

I have no idea what might possibly need clarification, since it seems to me there is no possible correlation between banter about religion and using it as a weapon against helpless prisoners who are being misused in other ways as well.


To belittle anyone's religion, if it is deeply meaningful to them, in circumstances where they are utterly powerless and afraid is disgusting.


To pretend to equate this with teasing is, to me, evidence of such moral blindness that I do not consider it worth arguing about it. The person who would seriously put that forward is not amenable to reasonable debate on the matter, or simply attempting to have a chance to pretend moral outrage so as to have a psychodrama.


I leave others to makle up their own minds re which is the case here.

Either way, it is ridiculous to pretend to debate it, since no reasonable debate is intended.


Personally, even when I was religious, I would not have been troubled by abuse of the bible, it is just a book, to christians, in its physical form. To Muslims it is a terrible thing to abuse it. Lash says this is ridiculous. Shrugs. Equally, I regard christian and muslim belief in the god they espouse as ridiculous, yet Lash, for instance, wishes to privilege her superstition above the muslim version. So it goes.

I would not choose to physically abuse anyone's holy book in front of them. To do such seems to me infantile and unnecessary . To do so when people are in your power utterly is a much darker thing, I believe.



When people are free and under no duress I see no harm in teasing them, although, in real life, I would not do such to a religious person if I saw it really distressed them, although I would certainly not lie down and say nothing if they were trying to foist their stuff upon me, or if were using it to abuse others... (eg fomenting hatred of gays, hatred of other religions etc.)


If people here do not like having their beliefs challenged, that can look away.....this is a forum for doing just that, and if they do not like having the odd joke made about their religion, they can look away too.


A number of the christians here have no qualms about shitting on, for instance, Islam, and expressing unpleasant prejudices about others.

If they then squawk about others then criticising their religion, they are the hypocritical fools I take them to be, in spades.





Meanwhile, it's time to crap on the agnostics, like me!


Bastiches we are, freeloading on others' holidays!!!

I demand holidays for Ramadan, Passover, all the important Indian festivals......what other holidays can we freeload on?



More religious holidays, I say!!!! Come on jews and muslims, demand equality in holidays! We agnostics will support you, that is, I think we will!