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O'Reilly - "Very Secret Plan to Diminish Christianity"

 
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 01:26 am
Not religious myself, Merry Christmas to all.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:14 pm
Yesterday, I watched an idiot force a "Christmas" gift on the militant Jew in the office. She waved off quiet protestations, with a loud, "Well, I know you aren't a Christian, but Merry Christmas...Merry Christmas..." It was like she was daring my Jewish supervisor not to say Merry Christmas.

That is the first time I've felt such a sting about Christmas/majority status.




*militant Jew in this case--someone who has shared passionate discomfort re the overwhelming immersion of our society in Christmas.

When the hell is Hanukkah?

I'm buying a Hanukkah present for my supervisor....and the ass-hole. I shall say Happy Hanukkah loudly, until I get a response.

What was she thinking?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:28 pm
Lash, sometimes I know exactly what I like about you again
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 07:32 pm
Laughing Sorry to make it so hard to remember...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 08:03 pm
So Lash, what are you wearing?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 08:50 pm
A deep burgundy teddy with Christmas lights on my boobies.

What else?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 08:50 pm
<he must have forgotten what HE liked about me>
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 11:13 pm
nimh wrote:
Lash, sometimes I know exactly what I like about you again


Well, nimh, here's why you don't like me:

I'm afraid that I don't see the big deal in what the woman did.

Perhaps you had to be there to appreciate how obnoxious she was being, but the way the story was told, I don't see it.

Lash: Did your Jewish supervisor share his passionate discomfort with your co-worker? If so, that would make a difference, but if she had no reason to believe he was discomforted by Christmas, what's the big deal? Should we assume all Jews are discomforted by Christmas?

Would it have been equally offensive for him to present her with a Chanukah gift while declaring "I know you're not a Jew, but Happy Chanukah, Happy Chanukah?" I guess you believe she would be since you plan on turning the tables on her.

Maybe it's because I don't have a passionate affinity for any religious holiday nor a passionate discomfort with any (or any religion for that matter), but I don't understand how anyone can be offended by gift-giving in connection with a holiday - religious or otherwise.

Even in its most religious expressions why would a non-Christian find Christmas offensive? It's not like Christians are celebrating the birth of Hitler.

Again, if someone makes it clear they are, for some reason, discomforted by a particular religious celebration then it is boorish for someone else to deliberately confront them with it, but assuming everyone who is not a Christian is touchy about the celebration of Christmas is a bit much.

Since Lash and nimh seem to be of like mind on this, perhaps one of them can tell me what I'm missing.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Dec, 2005 11:53 pm
I'm glad you asked, finn.

We are an office of six women. Five cross-wearin', Christians and one Star of David wearin' Jew--to say, we all practice our faith--a couple attend church regularly, and Janet, the resident Jew, takes her faith more seriously than all of us put together.

We discuss politics and religion on a regular basis--and the last conversation we had, Janet talked passionately about how she felt--surrounded by Christmas--the music, the Merry Christmases, the overpowering hype, and the inability to find a Happy Hanukkah card anywhere.

She wasn't being mean spirited at all--and I did tell her I wouldn't take offense if someone wished me a Happy Hanukkah--but I thought later how I might feel if the tables were turned and my religion was shunted aside, while another one was crammed all in my face.

I would never consider minimizing my religion to even the score, but I think people should carry Hanukkah (et al) accoutrements and I think people should at least be considerate when approaching people they know are 1) jewish (or other-religioned) and 2) have expressed sensitivity about it.

The ass-hole knew. She didn't care. She thinks Jewishness is an affliction she can heal if she is forceful enough. Janet had corrected her a couple of times-- "Have you gotten all your Christmas shopping done?" "You mean my Hanukkah shopping?" There's no way it wasn't intentional, power prosletizing--or just in-your-face disrespect for Janet's faith. (sp)

Jesus is very personally special to me. He also represents calling her religion a lie. I don't think He would want to be used as a weapon against anyone.

I wouldn't hide my religion. I'd just be sensitive. If you could have seen the look on Janet's face, you'd understand.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 12:47 am
Lash wrote:
I'm glad you asked, finn.

We are an office of six women. Five cross-wearin', Christians and one Star of David wearin' Jew--to say, we all practice our faith--a couple attend church regularly, and Janet, the resident Jew, takes her faith more seriously than all of us put together.

We discuss politics and religion on a regular basis--and the last conversation we had, Janet talked passionately about how she felt--surrounded by Christmas--the music, the Merry Christmases, the overpowering hype, and the inability to find a Happy Hanukkah card anywhere.

She wasn't being mean spirited at all--and I did tell her I wouldn't take offense if someone wished me a Happy Hanukkah--but I thought later how I might feel if the tables were turned and my religion was shunted aside, while another one was crammed all in my face.

I would never consider minimizing my religion to even the score, but I think people should carry Hanukkah (et al) accoutrements and I think people should at least be considerate when approaching people they know are 1) jewish (or other-religioned) and 2) have expressed sensitivity about it.

The ass-hole knew. She didn't care. She thinks Jewishness is an affliction she can heal if she is forceful enough. Janet had corrected her a couple of times-- "Have you gotten all your Christmas shopping done?" "You mean my Hanukkah shopping?" There's no way it wasn't intentional, power prosletizing--or just in-your-face disrespect for Janet's faith. (sp)

Jesus is very personally special to me. He also represents calling her religion a lie. I don't think He would want to be used as a weapon against anyone.

I wouldn't hide my religion. I'd just be sensitive. If you could have seen the look on Janet's face, you'd understand.


The additional information allows me to see your point and I agree with it.

(Perhaps nimh will like me after all!)

Well, I agree with it in large measure. If your co-worker knew her action would discomfort your supervisor, she is an a-hole.

I think Janet is too touchy, but that doesn't excuse the a-hole.

I live in Texas, and I know I can find a Chanukah card pretty easily, and Kwanza cards as well. If there's a buck to be made selling non-Christian holiday cards, they will be sold. If there isn't and there are none readily available, that should not be taken as an affront by non-Christians. Stores have no responsibility to stock their shelves with merchandise that won't sell, just so they can be inclusive.

Christmas songs play during the season because that is what the majority of people want to hear. It is not because the radio stations want to remind Jews that they are not Christian, or to belittle any of the beliefs or traditions that Jews may hold dear.

Wishing a Jew Merry Christmas is not, necessarily, an insult or an act of aggression. Your a-hole co-worker made it so, but I'd like to think she is the exception and not the rule.

The commercial hype of Christmas in America overpowers a lot of people, including a lot of Christians. It is directed at parting people from their money not against Jews or other non-Christians.

I don't consider myself a Christian, but I was raised one, and just don't agree with you that the concept of The Christ means Judaism is a lie. Judaism is not founded on the belief that Jesus is not the son of God. It is not founded on the belief that there can be no son of God. If Jesus is the son of God, the part of Judaism that is necessarily wrong is that it doesn't acknowledge him as the Messiah. This is a big deal to Christians, but it doesn't mean Judaism is a lie. I agree that Jesus (whether man alone or man and God at once) would not want belief in him or his teachings to be used as a weapon. Celebrating his birth is not an attack on anyone.

Some people are too quick to be offended. They wear their offense as a badge. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with Janet, but I think she needs to have more faith in her faith. Everyone cannot be in the majority.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 01:08 am
I agree with some of your points.

I do think you are fluffing over what Christ means to Judaism, however.

But, not that big a deal. I'm not trying to convince you. I just want to elucidate for anyone who may be curious.

I mean--certain Jews, the leadership in Jerusalem, anyway, went to alot of trouble to trot Jesus around in the dark, trying to find someone to kill Him. They said He was a liar, or ---they'd be Christians, eh? If Jews and Christians wanted to--they could find deep reasons to despise one another due to nothing other than Jesus. To one, he is blasphemy against their God--to the others, He's the Lamb of God, the perfect Son of Man. There's no middle ground.

I imagine if I was a Jew--and people were in my face, paying him homage, and practically forcing me to, I'd consider it an attack.

I would have never seen it that way had I not heard and seen how Janet felt. We try to put ourselves in other's shoes, but I don't think we really can, until we see them walk in those shoes.

I'm not a bleeding heart. I just want to treat her the way I'd want her to treat me, if the situations were reversed.

How puritanical did THAT sound?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 01:42 am
Lash wrote:
I agree with some of your points.

I do think you are fluffing over what Christ means to Judaism, however.

But, not that big a deal. I'm not trying to convince you. I just want to elucidate for anyone who may be curious.

I mean--certain Jews, the leadership in Jerusalem, anyway, went to alot of trouble to trot Jesus around in the dark, trying to find someone to kill Him. They said He was a liar, or ---they'd be Christians, eh? If Jews and Christians wanted to--they could find deep reasons to despise one another due to nothing other than Jesus. To one, he is blasphemy against their God--to the others, He's the Lamb of God, the perfect Son of Man. There's no middle ground.

I think we need to hear from some Jews: Does Jesus as The Christ represent blasphemy?

I'm not sure there isn't middle ground. There are plenty of fundamental Christians crowing their support for God's chosen ones. Doesn't seem like they consider Jews to be dirty Christ-killers.


I imagine if I was a Jew--and people were in my face, paying him homage, and practically forcing me to, I'd consider it an attack.

"Practically forcing me to (pay Christ homage)" would be an attack, if "practically" meant "actually" in even the most subtle of ways. However,
paying homage to Jesus in the proximity of a Jew is not an attack, any more than paying homage to Allah is an attack.


I would have never seen it that way had I not heard and seen how Janet felt. We try to put ourselves in other's shoes, but I don't think we really can, until we see them walk in those shoes.

I'm not a bleeding heart. I just want to treat her the way I'd want her to treat me, if the situations were reversed.

How puritanical did THAT sound?

Not at all, but it did sound incredibly bleeding heart. Please don't tell me you think we need to walk a mile in another man's moccasins before we can judge him. Next you'll be telling me it takes a village! Laughing
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 07:27 am
The Really Northern (north pole) Strategy and Evidence It Is Failing

The "war on christmas" is, as many understand it, a public relations campaign designed to 1) forward the proposition that Christianity itself is unjustly or unfairly under theo-terrorist attack from "secular humanism" and its agents (atheists, ACLU, the courts, those other false faiths) and 2) to maintain and ramp up activism in the religious right Republican voting base and to 3) increase that voting base by attempting to convince traditionally non-Republican religious voters (mainly the black community) that their goals/values will be best served through Republican governance and to 4) divert attention away from the adults and kids and families who ARE presently being maimed and blown-to-hell through tossing up the image of Santa/baby jesus under a rain of ideological cluster-bombs dropped by the wintry-souled (yet with loins rudely aflame) liberals.

A compelling analysis, you'll say, and all pretty obvious. I don't agree with you.

For, swooping a bit deeper under the radar, is that dynamic evidenced in modern religious illustrations where, if you peer closely, those gifts the Three Wise Men carry, tightly roped to their camel saddle-horns, were each picked up enroute from Macy's and Best Buy. The Son of God as Board of Trade promoter. The Prince of Peace and Profligacy. Credit card Christ. The Good Shepard Shopper.

Vulgar? Perhaps a tad, say a growing number of more traditionally-minded amongst the flock. This internecine theological divide yesterday broke out in open winter warfare awkwardly right below the Pope's bedroom window.


http://todayspictures.slate.com/20051223/images/PAR11254.jpg
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 07:47 am
What the....???!!!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 08:30 am
I swear on all that is holy, it does NOT take a village.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 08:35 am
Sunday evening's Christmas service at the Calvary Baptist Temple In Lubbock Texas featured a majestic performance from the Temple choir singing an assortment of traditional Christmas carols and featuring a new composition from the choir's director, Dixie Lee Getty, "I Am a CHRISTMAS! Tree" (lyrics below)

I am a CHRISTMAS! tree
Always was, and will be
Fa la la
la la la
la la la la

My boughs sway with our Savior's breath
I sing the single shibboleth
And if you don't - MEGADEATH!
fa la la la

My roots drink of our Savior's grace
Shout it in the upper case
THE LORD HATES LIBRULS IN HIS FACE!
fa la la la


http://todayspictures.slate.com/20051223/images/PAR225632.jpg
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 08:51 am
Late on Christmas eve, as Air Force One winged its peaceful way high above the snowy Montana plains, Vice President Cheney closed his tired eyes and fell softly asleep. He dreamed, again, of marching into that perfect world.


http://todayspictures.slate.com/20051223/images/NYC35145.jpg
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 08:53 am
Responses in blue. Oh, and Chanukah starts on 12/25 this year, actually, and runs for 8 days (as always).

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Lash wrote:
I agree with some of your points.

I do think you are fluffing over what Christ means to Judaism, however.

But, not that big a deal. I'm not trying to convince you. I just want to elucidate for anyone who may be curious.

I mean--certain Jews, the leadership in Jerusalem, anyway, went to alot of trouble to trot Jesus around in the dark, trying to find someone to kill Him. They said He was a liar, or ---they'd be Christians, eh? If Jews and Christians wanted to--they could find deep reasons to despise one another due to nothing other than Jesus. To one, he is blasphemy against their God--to the others, He's the Lamb of God, the perfect Son of Man. There's no middle ground.

I think we need to hear from some Jews: Does Jesus as The Christ represent blasphemy?

I'm not sure there isn't middle ground. There are plenty of fundamental Christians crowing their support for God's chosen ones. Doesn't seem like they consider Jews to be dirty Christ-killers.


I think most of us just don't care one way or the other. I know that's going to insult people, and I'm sorry if it does, but, frankly, Jesus is not a part of my religion any more than Muhammed is a part of Christianity.

I imagine if I was a Jew--and people were in my face, paying him homage, and practically forcing me to, I'd consider it an attack.

"Practically forcing me to (pay Christ homage)" would be an attack, if "practically" meant "actually" in even the most subtle of ways. However, paying homage to Jesus in the proximity of a Jew is not an attack, any more than paying homage to Allah is an attack.

I read about the incident in Lash's office, and I would have considered that insistence that it's Christmas and not, perhaps, something else to other people, to be mightily offensive and rude. I would consider it to be an attack. But sheesh, if I got upset every time someone crossed themselves, I'd stop watching professional sports.

I would have never seen it that way had I not heard and seen how Janet felt. We try to put ourselves in other's shoes, but I don't think we really can, until we see them walk in those shoes.

I'm not a bleeding heart. I just want to treat her the way I'd want her to treat me, if the situations were reversed.

How puritanical did THAT sound?

Not at all, but it did sound incredibly bleeding heart. Please don't tell me you think we need to walk a mile in another man's moccasins before we can judge him. Next you'll be telling me it takes a village! Laughing


I appreciate your trying to understand my feelings and that of someone who sounds a bit like me. It ain't easy being a minority of any sort, particularly when the minority is somewhat invisible, very tiny, and is because of a matter of choice rather than body type. So thank you and I hope you both enjoy your holidays. Smile
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 10:29 am
[url=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1746942#1746942]timber[/url] wrote:
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7878/candycanes2iz.gif


Please allow me to extend seasonaly appropriate platitudes, as may be not inconsistent with, pejorative of, or inimical to any particular culture, heritage, and/or preference, to one and all, with express provision that any who wish may consider themselves exempt and exluded from this offering.






This offer, to the extent practical, shall be deemed modified to comply with any law or regulation relevant hereunto, except that it shall be void in its entirety where taxed, prohibited, or otherwise contrary to law or regulation. Please consult your local ordinances. Employ in moderation, and excersize care when using in conjunction with the operation of motor vehicles and/or other mechanical or electrical equipment. Will not harm fish or vegetation and safe for application in proximity to children, pets and livestock when used as directed. No other warranty is express or implied and on acceptance recipient assumes all risk. Ensure adequate ventilation, do not expose directly to open flame, and keep from freezing. Please recycle. Discontinue use immediately and seek medical attention should persistant rash, cough or other respiratory distress, nausea, disorientation, pain, or hair loss develop.



(Thanks to rosborne979)
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 10:33 am
RED and white candy canes? Gross amounts of sugar? Seasonal platitudes? What's next, floridated water?
0 Replies
 
 

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