Why have children?

I didn't really read through this thread thoroughly, but I'm just answering the first post.

Before I had my son, I hated kids. I hated seeing them act up in restaurants, hated tantrums, hated seeing snot running down their noses, hated the sound of them screaming, hated friends that had kids because that just meant we weren't going to choose to hang out with them, and hated the idea of giving up OUR (husband and me) time alone.

Then I got pregnant.

Sighhhhhhhhh......

That's where the change started. The sight of babies became beautiful. I began asking how old every baby I saw was, and got that glow you hear mommies get. Still hated kids over the age of 1 though for all the reasons stated above.

Everyone told me the things everyone hears a million and one times: When they're yours, it's different
You won't have any time alone.
You'll hate when they learn to walk.
Forget those long showers.
The honeymoon period of marriage is over.
What's sleep?
People still have a date night with their spouse?
Romance?

Then my son came into the world.

It's been 10 1/2 months, and the smile on my face is still the same as when he was born. I don't feel he's taken away anything in my life. If he has, he's brought in so much more!!! My husband would agree. I can't believe something that takes just about all of my time can be the greatest thing in the world. I think EVERY normal person (no psychos need apply) should have one! Of course I remember why those w/o one wouldn't want one and convincing them be may be impossible. It's just harder now to understand because of the JOY I get from this monster/angel/terror/sweetheart gives me.

I'm a dog person. Those who remember me posting here back in the day may remember how obsessed I am with them. I can tell you something about every breed registered by AKC, the medical problems they may/may not have, their personality, breeding, history, and I'd be the first to get in a heated debate with someone when I hear a ignorant comment regarding the treatment/care/breeding of dogs. Dogs were my world!!! They're my kids!!!

Now, they're still my "'kids" but now I see the difference that I couldn't before. My obsession has went down a few notches, and is now focused on my kid. ..........but it's what I WANT! My heart is getting all mushy and googly just talking about kids.

Kids are the best


























































.....when they're your own.

Well, if you don't have kids, then you'll always be rested. And always have plenty of time for sex, which you can have in any room of the house without fear of interruption. Not to mention the time and money to travel and to buy what you want when you want. You'll never be kept up all night worrying-- about that nasty fever or where they might be or who they might be with or a million other complications. You won't have to scrimp and save to put them through college, buy them that car or pay for that wedding.

There's a million reasons I can give you not to have children. It's a long, hard, dirty, very tough job fraught with potential pitfalls and with no guarantee of any reward at the end. It may very well break your heart.

The only reasons I can think of are all intangible. The look on my oldest son's face when he got all dresed up for his first date. My daughter's eyes when I taught her how to swim and she made it up and back the length of the pool. The joy in my middle son's voice when he told me he'd been admitted to UC Davis. The pride in my heart that I expect to feel when I watch my children graduate from college and start their own journey into adulthood. That choked up feeling in my throat that I get every time I think about walking my daughter down the aisle (but not too soon-- she's only 10, after all).

There are a lot of minuses and just a few marks in the plus column, when you get right down to it, and everyone has to make their own choice. I made mine and I'm not ashamed to say that I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

Thanks for posting, Joahaeyo.

You represent a very popular point of view: "How does having a baby affect ME?"
I am already convinced of the euphoria you must feel, as I am a very proud uncle, myself. I love kids. (I love dogs, too, BTW!) But I consider having a child to be the ultimate selfish act. Everything we do is basically selfish, in a sense, although our actions can also benefit others. But to create a new being, who will inevitably endure great suffering, IMO seems the height of conceit.

[I don't mean to offend anyone. These are my true thoughts.]

Well, I don't see anything wrong with your view!

Just if it happened one day ...by accident or choice... I bet you wouldn't regret a day of their life ...even with all the misery, hurt, and hardships that may come their way.

You may be right about that, but that's not the point. The child also has a point of view, one that is barely considered.

I think it's not considered because it is unknowable. A point of view about whether or not one should be alive, unless you believe in life before life, can not be determined until a person has been alive for some time. And none of us can know the future to know whether the likelihood of a child having a good life is great or small. So it's all a matter of chance. But I think that most people who have children believe in doing so that they can give them a better upbringing than they themselves had, and thus secure a better future for them.

It is taking a gamble with something that does not belong to you.

It's a gamble either way. What about failing to have a child you'd otherwise have? I'd wager that most people who have been born were happier to have been born than not -- and those who are unhappy about it have the option to do something about it. By not having a child at all, you remove all options for this thing that does not belong to you.

Note, this does not in the least mean that I think everyone should have a child. I just think that your particular line of reasoning doesn't really hold up.

Like what?You can't remove options from something/someone that doesn't exist.

Like kill themselves.



You also can't take a gamble with something that doesn't belong to you if the something isn't, like, actually a thing.

Can you explain what this actually means?

My head hurts now.

Do you mean that?

The life of the new person belongs to the new person. You are betting on the chance that this new person will lead a happy, rewarding life.

Yes, I actually mean that. If you bring a person into the world who may or may not have a happy life, the choice is theirs whether they continue it or not. If you don't bring that person into the world at all, there is no choice. I am very glad my parents chose to bring me into the world -- their refusal to "gamble" with my life means I would never exist. That's a much worse option to me than existing. I like existing.

Look, when I posted recently I hadn't re-read this topic. I just did, and remembered more of your argument, such as it is. I've gained respect for you since you posted this, but I still think it's a really ridiculous argument. My hermetically sealed chamber thing still applies.

What soz said.

I've done a lot of different things in my life...dozens of jobs, many different roles. This I can tell you...being a parent is by far the hardest thing I have ever done.

It is also the best thing I have ever done.

Suicide is committed by people who suffer from severe mental illness. I don't understand how you can use it to justify your belief.
It's a much worse option to you, now. If you had never existed, neither would your choice (like you said). There would be no "you" to know the difference.

I am not glad to have been born. I represent the position of those who feel the same (past, present, and future).

How do you know, echi, that you didn't choose to be born?

I have considered that idea. . . even earlier in this thread, I think. I wish that it were true, but I can't find enough reason to convince myself. It is more likely just wishful thinking.

echi, You used to be a "new" member. I'm not even sure if I posted on this forum, but here's my .02c worth.

To me, life means experiencing everything it has to offer in being alive. That includes getting married and having children.
the only regret I now have at my age (71) is the simple fact that I never had a daughter to experience raising one. We had two sons, so my wife and I tried to adopt a girl baby, but it was not to be.

I also miss not being a grandpa. Boy, do I miss being a grandpa.

Eva and cicerone,

I am glad that you both had self-edifying experiences. My concern, in this thread, is for the children, not for myself or any other would-be parents.