For a while now, I've felt the urge to find someone to marry. Everything about marriage appeals to me, except for the possibility that it might produce children. I have been struggling with this question for years, and I feel it is necessary to answer before becoming involved in a serious relationship. As I suspect that most of you here are parents, I'm hoping that you can help shed some light. How do you justify having children?
(I am a new member. If this topic has already been addressed, please redirect me.)
Don't want kids, don't have kids. It's as simple as that. You can practice birth control. It isn't an inevitable part of marriage.
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FreeDuck
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 02:22 pm
There is really no good reason to have children. We procreate mostly out of instinct but luckily have the power to suppress or override that instinct.
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flushd
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 02:26 pm
If you don't want kids, find someone else who doesn't want kids. Lots of couples are married and never have children.
Your choice.
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Phoenix32890
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 02:33 pm
echi- Welcome to A2K!
If you have to "justify" having children, you are probably better off not having them. Years ago, it was a given that a married couple, unless there was a reproductive problem, had children. In fact, a person could have their marriage annulled if their spouse refused to have kids. If you were married more than a couple of years, and did not produce a child or two, you got bugged by friends and relatives about why you had did not have any kids.
Things have changed nowadays, I think for the better. People have a lot more options as to how they can run their lives. Being married does not necessarily involve children.
If you have any doubts as to whether you want to be a parent, don't have kids. Find yourself a spouse who wants to remain childless also.
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DrewDad
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 02:41 pm
Having kids is a joy... so long as you really want to be a parent.
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Phoenix32890
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 02:43 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Having kids is a joy... so long as you really want to be a parent.
That's exactly my point. If a person is not looking forward to being a parent, if he/she doesn't think that kids running around would be the greatest thing since sliced bread, the person should not have any kids.
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babsatamelia
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 04:12 pm
No questions about WHY nor about justification ever entered THIS mind prior to having my 3 daughters. I was 17 when I had daughter #1, and by 21; I had all 3. By 25 I was divorced. Their father never really returned from "serving his country" in Vietnam. He was never the same. In fact he spent the majority of his time & money dedicated to
maintaining a state of "non feeling" or non-being as much as he could.
Although the idea of a career was something I did not want at all, there
I was applying to pharmacy school at Pitt AND I actually graduated Magna Cum Laude class of 1982. THEN, things began to make sense. We had our own home, a FIRST for us as a family !!
There are many, many paths which lead to spiritual growth and
enlightenment. To me, the most difficult ... are raising children and
entering into long term committhiment to one person.
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Green Witch
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 04:29 pm
Why do you feel you have to have children if you get married? If you are positive you do not want children you can have minor surgery to prevent pregnancy or as mentioned, use a good birth control. Seek a man that feels the same way you do.
Neither my husband nor I want children (our dogs come close enough), but I always say my friends have children for me. I like it when they visit and I like it when they go home.
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echi
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 05:15 pm
It isn't that I don't like kids. I do. And I would love to have them running around the house. I have a niece and nephew and they are my favorite people in the world. But without a guarantee that a child will have a good life, one that he or she is happy to have been given, how can a responsible, conscientious person feel good about having a child?
As for being married without having kids, I think that sounds fine, but it sometimes just happens. Birth control can fail, and I understand that even surgical methods are not a hundred percent.
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Green Witch
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 05:36 pm
The pill, when properly used, is 98% effective (good odds) - used with a condom it goes up to 100%. Surgical procedures on women can be 100%. Most people get pregnant because they are careless.
There are no guarantees in life for anyone or anything - life is fragile. You can only do your best and hope good things will follow. Often what we fear the most never happens, or if it does and a person survives, they move on and are hopefully stornger for the experience.
My grandparents survived the Holocaust and they went on to have a family because it was their way to prove they were not defeated. They could have said "why bring children into such a cruel world?". Instead they had children with the hope their children would make the world better.
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gustavratzenhofer
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 05:40 pm
drewdad wrote:
Having kids is a joy... so long as you really want to be a parent.
I did a doubletake when I first saw drew's post. I thought it said "Having kids is a joy.... so long as you really want to be a pervert."
I thought to myself, "What kind of monster is Drew? I thought I knew him."
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boomerang
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Tue 29 Nov, 2005 06:18 pm
echi wrote:
But without a guarantee that a child will have a good life, one that he or she is happy to have been given, how can a responsible, conscientious person feel good about having a child?
No life comes with a guarantee.
They don't even come with a warranty.
If you think it is irresponsible an unconcientious to have a child but you want to have kids you should adopt children that need someone to love them.
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echi
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 12:54 am
boomerang...That is a good point, and one that I have considered. Adoption, for me, does seem very appealing. But the thought of raising a child by myself is not appealing, at all.
green witch...I know that contraceptives dramatically reduce the odds of fertilization, but I feel the risk is not mine to take, as the possible consequence would have a much greater impact on the child. I feel it is my responsibility to that potential child to know that what I am doing is okay; that I am not just being selfish. As for surgical procedures, that's far from my mind. I at least need to resolve this question before I would consider something so drastic, especially since I do not know what conclusion I will come to.
I want very much to have children. But I cannot convince myself that it is a responsible thing to do. Life is not fair; everyone knows that. Life is unpredictable; everyone knows that, too. As someone who has been born into this, it's my job to accept it. But how can it be okay to bring someone new in? This is the most important decision regarding my (hypothetical, future) children that I will ever make. I can't figure it out.
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FreeDuck
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 08:25 am
My sister and I used to have this same discussion. Whether it is selfish or not to have children, I can't really say. I'm not at all certain that there's anything wrong with being selfish. Same for whether it is responsible. I could make an argument that it is irresponsible to drive my gas-burning vehicle to work each day. Would it be more responsible to stay home and not contribute to the economy? Nevertheless there are people who believe that it is irresponsible to bring children into the world when there are so many here already who are not being properly cared for or brought up in a way that allows them to take responsibility for themselves as adults. That is a valid argument. In the end it's up to you. But there's something to what J_B says about spiritual growth. It is true for me also that my children have helped me to grow as much as I have helped them. It isn't only one-way. (In that sense maybe it is selfish.) One of the first and hardest things they taught me is that I don't control much if any of this world and to accept this lack of control.
But in the end, it's your highly personal decision. You are obviously intelligent and your pursuit of a rational argument for or against having children shows this. However, some things don't lend themselves easily to rational argument. In the case of having children, it is what our bodies were designed to do. We can override it, and should, if we feel that it is not the right the thing to do.
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echi
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:21 pm
FreeDuck...I do recognize that our bodies are driven to reproduce. Is this the determining factor for people who do? Is there really no more to it? Is the decision to have children really beyond rational understanding, as you seem to imply? If so, then what? Is it a matter of faith?
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sozobe
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:28 pm
What isn't a matter of faith?
You occasionally get in the car, probably... why? It's possible that you'll get in an accident and be maimed or die.
You go out to restaurants occasionally... why? It's possible that the very steak you're eating is from the first confirmed instance of mad cow disease in America, and your brain will turn into a sponge.
You have maybe even fallen in love... why? The likelihood is really rather high that you will have your heart broken, or worse.
Why do ANYTHING?
I very much like FreeDuck's point about control. Childrearing and a desire for control do not go together well -- as I have learned the hard way. You just have to take a chance sometimes.
There is no guarantee that your child will have a wonderful life -- but no guarantee that it will NOT be wonderful, either. Perhaps your ovaries harbor the first female president of the United States, or the person who will cure cancer, or...
It's a blind leap. Blind leaps are often quite rewarding. But YOU -- just you -- have to decide if it's something YOU want to do. If you don't, don't.
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echi
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:50 pm
sozobe...Right. If I go for a drive I might get killed. If I eat out I might get sick. These points you make are true, but they affect (probably) only me. I make the decision to do these things based on the level of risk that I am comfortable taking. I have faith in my ability to safely operate a vehicle, and I have faith in my ability to choose food that will not make me sick. But I do not have faith that my urge to reproduce is necessarily good. I think most people share this opinion, which accounts for the number of abortions that are performed, as well as the widespread use of contraceptives (even before STDs were such a concern). And just for the record, sozobe, you can leave my ovaries out of this; I don't have any.
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sozobe
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 06:57 pm
Oh, sorry. Scrotum, then? (I think men keep producing new sperm whereas women have all their ovaries at birth -- well, they're not women when they're born. You get the idea.)
I don't think you have the motivation right as to why people have abortions and use contraceptives. I think the overwhelming majority of them just don't, personally, want to have a child. They aren't ready, already have too many, etc. I don't think that a person who uses contraceptives or has an abortion has always made the decision to NEVER have a child -- just not right then. (I used contraceptives for many, many years before I decided to get pregnant, and have been using contraceptives since.)
Of the people who have decided to never have a child, there are a variety of reasons. Maybe they don't particularly like kids, maybe they are focused on their careers, maybe they love kids but feel that incidental contact through jobs or relatives is plenty. I think that the subset who decide not to ever have a child because the child's life might be difficult is a small percentage of the total.
If you are using as a sole criteria what is best for the child, do you think the child would prefer to be born and see what happens, or never exist?
Again, I am not saying that YOU should have a child -- maybe, maybe not, your decision. I'm just questioning your approach to the issue.
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FreeDuck
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Wed 30 Nov, 2005 08:17 pm
echi wrote:
FreeDuck...I do recognize that our bodies are driven to reproduce. Is this the determining factor for people who do? Is there really no more to it? Is the decision to have children really beyond rational understanding, as you seem to imply? If so, then what? Is it a matter of faith?
Well, I guess I think that it is beyond rational understanding and a matter of faith as when I searched for a rational reason to have children I found none. And had them anyway.