Why have children?

My point about abortion and contraception is that their use diminishes the argument that people justify having children due to their faith that the biological urge to reproduce is good. If that were the case, why would so many make such efforts to prevent pregnancies.

Some would prefer it if they had never existed. Isn't that enough?

I don't know that most people decide whether their urge to reproduce is "good" or not, but a great many of us accept a responsibility for our bodies and their urges with an understanding that the brain gets the final say. People use contraceptives mostly because they have reasons not to have children at that given moment and not usually because they think that they shouldn't ever have children, or because they think that the biological instinct to reproduce is "bad".

It's a valid question. Like I said, I used to have this conversation with my sister all the time. Neither of us ever found a rational reason to have children that we thought was moral (I can share with you the reasons we found). She chose not to have children and that was the right decision for her. I chose to have them and that was the right decision for me.

FreeDuck...I forgot to address my last post. It was in response to sozobe.
FreeDuck, you stated that your decision to have children was right for you, and I wish I could find my way to that conclusion, too. It must have been an important decision for you, as you stated you discussed it at length with your sister. What convinced you that your children would be glad to have been born? How were you convinced that it was worth the risk?

Why do you want to find your way to that decision?

There is no biological imperative to have children.

I didn't want to have kids and I didn't. I wasn't career driven or selfish or whatever, I just didn't want to have kids.

Then someone left a kid on my doorstep and I had a kid and I could have called social services and gone on with my life but I fell in love.

If you don't want to have kids, don't force yourself. You're right to consider it carefully but don't beat yourself up about your ambivalence.

echi, that is a very good question and I will attempt to answer it as honestly as I know how.

First, I met my husband. He was the first person I met that ever made me feel like having kids. He had a lot of qualities that I thought were important in a father, which is odd because it wasn't like I had sat down and considered what qualities I thought would be good in a father. But generally speaking, he was a man who clearly knew how to live and how to love. He was/is generous and seems to understand what is important in life. By that I probably mean that we agree on what we think is important in life. Then I met his family. He has a big family and all of his brothers and sisters have children. All of these children were happy, healthy and bright despite the fact that they were growing up in a place with significantly fewer amenities and opportunities than I had growing up and have now. They were all happy to be alive. Obviously, his family knew how to raise children. It sounds odd, but I wasn't raised in such a way and so didn't really know that such happiness in childhood existed. They made me believe it was possible to have happy, well-behaved children and they made me see that raising happy children (into happy adults) had very little to do with prosperity.

All this is to say that I came to believe that a positive outcome was possible. Not a reason, per se, but it sort of removed the reasons I had for NOT wanting children. All of the reasons to override my instinct were removed. We had two children, and after that, some of those reasons returned, along with a few new ones, and we won't be having any more.

But I know that not everyone will come to the same conclusions I did.

FreeDuck...Your last post has made me wonder if I may be jumping the gun. I'm not in a relationship, and I haven't been in love with anyone in many years. For now, I still can't see any reason that makes procreation justifiable. But I know that there is always more to learn. Perhaps I will meet someone someday who will convince me. (Either that or we'll adopt.)

I can't think of any reason to have kids other than someone wants them. That's a perfectly fine reason in itself; I think.

I've had this conversation with my brother as well. I don't have children, but it is not for moral reasons. The possibility is there that I may have children or , like boom's situation, I may become a mother to a child that needs me.
Honestly, I think I would be a wonderful mother.

My brother gives a lot of the same reasons as yourself to not have children. Yet he wants to be a father! He says he doesn't want to bring a child into this messed up world just so he can watch the child meet disappointment and pain. Could that be something you are thinking?
My response to that is life is filled with such things. You simply can not live and not experience some level of pain, disappointment, hardship, etc. But that's what parents are for....to be a soft place to fall, to guide, to protect.

It is of course your choice. And each choice is valid. I wish you lots of luck and happiness.

Yep. Wanting kids is the only reason to have children. It might not meet the "justifiable" test, but it doesn't really matter.

echi, there's no jumping the gun on deciding not to have kids, I think. You can always have them later or adopt, as you said. But I do want to say that the very fact that you are thinking so carefully about it means that you would probably do a good job as a parent. That in now way, of course, means that you have to or even that you should want to. Good luck.

Understood. This is true for you and me and everyone else who has been born (or, perhaps, conceived), but I don't think it is true for those who have not. Why do you all seem convinced that you have the right to cause someone to be born? Undoubtedly, some of these kids will at some point regret your decision. What do you say to them?

Tough ****, mostly.

Ok, I was just being silly.

I don't know that any of us has the right to do anything but it is impossible to go through life not affecting any other human beings. What gives me the right to live in my house when someone else is homeless? What gives me the right to eat a steak dinner at the expense of a cow and to the insult of those who hold them sacred? Nobody asks to be born. Conveniently, nobody asks not to.

It is quite possible to go through life without affecting a child that has never been born.


I've never asked to not be run over by a bulldozer, but I might still be upset if it happens.

Sure, you've affected the fact that the child isn't born. There is a child who might have a great fantastic life but never gets the chance, because of you.

Again, I have no particular preferences -- have a kid or don't -- I just don't see how this line of thinking is tenable. If taken to any logical degree, you would remain holed up in your hermetically sealed chamber until you expired.

It's true that it is not possible to have an effect on something that does not exist.



I suppose a lot depends on what you believe goes on before birth. If you believe that there is a sort of pre-existence where children are happily playing and would prefer to stay, then it makes sense that we shouldn't have the right to bring them into this world that is not so happy. I could just as easily wonder if we have the right to NOT bring children into the world. If I believed that before birth people were clamoring to be next out of the womb, then how could I deny them entry? So clearly there's no cut and dry answer -- it depends on what you believe. Personally, I think that if my children came into this world, and after a while firmly believed that they should not be here, they have the power to off themselves and go back.

How is it possible to affect something that does not exist?



How would it not be tenable?
I would not remain holed up until I die. What led you to that? I may decide to not have children. I may decide to not have sex. Or I may change my mind and have twenty kids.

FreeDuck...Now we're getting somewhere.

What I mean is that your central thesis seems to be, "I do not want to do something that may negatively impact a person." (Such as have a child that will have a bad life.)

Correct me if that is wrong.

The only way to live that way -- to avoid negatively impacting anyone -- is to remain far out of reach. Don't drive to the grocery store because you might have a stroke and plow your car into a bus and kill, maim, or scar for life the 25 children inside of it. There is no guarantee that you won't have a stroke, after all.

If there are specific risk factors that concern you -- if you live in the middle of a war zone, or if you have a family history of mental illness, or if you were raised by an abusive father and fear that you will repeat the cycle -- that would change my perspective. But if it's just a generalized worry that things MIGHT go wrong, I think it's as reasonable to decide to never ever drive again.

I had children the easy way...I became a teacher so I could get a few months off each year.

sozobe...Okay, I see where you were going with the hermit thing. That makes a lot of sense. And, as it happens, I think automobiles are terrible. But that's another subject. Also, I do try my best to inflict as little harm as possible on any living thing. So, I suppose you are right about my motivation, here.
I think that never leaving my house would have a negative impact on me, and I am, after all, part of this world. I do also think that removing myself from the world would be detrimental to others (maybe not to any measurable degree). I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from. But I still feel like having a child is too big a gamble; not just for me, but for anyone.
FreeDuck made some interesting points, too. Maybe this thread should move somewhere else. I don't know; I'm new.

I have one regret regarding children. And that because we stopped at two. As I grew older I realized there is nothing more satisfying than being surrounded by a large and loving family with loads of grandchildren.