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Will the execution of Crips founder be a mistake?

 
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 09:22 pm
roverroad wrote:
The Guardian Angels originated out of New York City didn't they?


Yeah, I think that's right. Started by some kid named Silva, they rode the subways in NYC, too.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 09:36 pm
Curtis something. I don't remember it as NY but am not sure.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 09:41 pm
Curtis Sleawa, I believe. I thought his intentions were good, but not the thing to do.
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roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 09:47 pm
Like todays Minute Men...
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 09:59 pm
In my area, things went block by block.
A friend and I had an art gallery on a semi-iffy boulevard that was semi-iffy for a few more decades after we left and now is very high rent. Gallery studio we called it. When we moved in there were seven broken windows and it was winter. Well, winter in LA is not hell, but it was cold, I slept in my coat those first few weeks.

The key intersection for various serious stuff going on was about four blocks from us, six at most. I gather (do not know) that there were/are families in the neighborhood who sort of ruled, one black and one latino. It has been a recalcitrant set of blocks to consider. The people there thought of the rest of us as outsiders, somewhat true and somewhat not. The edges started getting gentrified, but not all so gentrified for a long time.
Frank Gehry's Nebraska Avenue buildings were done a few blocks from there, and Thom Mayne's 2-4-6-8 early studio was on an alley.
But... this all wasn't gang lite. Homicides at bus stops, and so on.

Don't know if this is all diminished now or not. I figure it has, substantially. Will check with my sources, heh.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 10:03 pm
However, my point was, it would be hard to be a young boy within that multiblock area - which was its own world.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 07:41 am
roverroad wrote
Quote:
The Guardian Angels originated out of New York City didn't they?


Yes, and they worked quite well. They did not participate in any criminal activity and did indeed offer protection to subway riding public. Note: they carried no weapons. Their presence was sufficient to thwart the young punks and muggers.
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:31 pm
Can we PLEASE not forget the most important players in this little drama y'all have created here.

Albert Lewis Owens, father of two daughters. Was led into a storeroom by Stan Williams, told to get on his knees, then took two shotgun blast execution style in the back after Williams and his accomplice had the cash and control of the situation. Williams later bragged that he "blew some white guy away, shot him in the back, for $63."

11 days later

Yen-I Yang, 65; Tsai-Shai Chen Yang, 62; and their daughter Yu-Chin Yang Lin, 42, were in the office of the Brookhaven Motel which they owned and operated when Williams and his accomplices broke down the door and proceeded to rob the room. The Yangs were huddled in a corner, held at gunpoint, then shot 12 times between the 3 of them, after the robbery, ripping gaping holes in their bodies as a shotgun would from close range. The two women survived for another couple of hours in agonizing pain before dying. Williams even had the calmness to pick up the shells afterwards so his weapon could not be matched to the murder. Luckily he missed one which was able to identify the weapon as a sawed off shotgun. An identical weapon was found in Williams car when he was picked up days later.

You can yammer all you want about redemption, Nobel prizes and his finding of the Lord, but please lets not forget the lives he has snuffed out and refuses to even acknowledge that he had anything to do with it.

By his silence, he is refusing to accept responsibility for his actions and their consequences.

Talk all you want about Tookie, I choose to remember the victims of his crimes.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:41 pm
The crimes for which he was convicted were built on manufactured evidence, according to many who ought to know.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:52 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
Curtis Sleawa, I believe. I thought his intentions were good, but not the thing to do.


Right, Edgar. Sleawa, not Silva, as I said above.
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Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 07:56 pm
Fedral wrote:By his silence, he is refusing to accept responsibility for his actions and their consequences.

What silence? He has consistently denied his guilt in those slayings.
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 08:03 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
The crimes for which he was convicted were built on manufactured evidence, according to many who ought to know.


That is your opinion edgar, please try not to pass it off as fact just because some nameless group of people who 'ought to know' told you so.

A jury found him guilty and decided that his crimes warranted the death penalty.

His victim's families want him ended, he was found guilty...

I don't know what more you need.


You know, contrary to popular belief among the inmates at most prisons...

most of them ARE guilty. As is Tookie. (As much as you want him not to be.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 08:06 pm
I know that the police in LA are notoriously corrupt and that his new lawyers have uncovered enough to make me think he may have been railroaded. I need to see concrete evidence, which appears to be missing.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 09:22 am
Lover wiped gun Suspect's gal tried to prevent bust, say cops
This story was reported by:
NICOLE BODE, ALISON GENDAR,
NANCIE L. KATZ, MAUREEN SEABERG and RICHARD WEIR
It was written by:
ALISON GENDAR

Quote:
Accused cop killer Allan Cameron gets heavily armed police escort on his way to courthouse yesterday.


Cops escort Marista Carre, girlfriend of Allan Cameron, accused of killing Officer Dillon Stewart.

The panicked lover of an accused cop killer wiped the murder weapon clean in a desperate attempt to shield him from arrest, a police source said yesterday.Accused gunman Allan Cameron ran straight to his girlfriend's Brooklyn apartment early Monday after he allegedly killed Police Officer Dillon Stewart during a wild car chase through Flatbush, police said.Maritsa Carre then allegedly wiped all fingerprints off of Cameron's 9-mm. Glock, a police source said, before it was tossed out a window. The gun and its magazine landed in the backyard of her Ocean Ave. apartment building.Although the recovered gun had no prints, ballistic tests showed that shell casings found at the scene of Stewart's shooting, near Church and Flatbush Aves., and in Cameron's 1990 Infiniti were traced to the weapon, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said yesterday.Cops have not ruled out charging Carre, depending on her level of cooperation in the investigation into the murder of Stewart, a highly decorated five-year NYPD officer, sources said.The case against Cameron was strengthened when he was picked out of a lineup by Officer Wiener Philippe, who fingered the wild-haired 6-foot-5 suspect as the man who shot him in a Nov. 19 off-duty robbery.


http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/370296p-314964c.html


Articles regarding this killing have been in the news in NYC for several days. If the suspect is found guilty and sentenced to death. When it comes time to carry out the sentence. In ten, twelve, fifteen years will the same bleeding hearts be claiming that he was innocent, the death penalty is barbaric, police corruption or some other hogwash. And will the children of this officer still mourn the unwarranted killing of their father?
IMO nothing less than the death penalty will be justice in this case. As it is in the case of the "rehabilitated' Tookie
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 08:03 pm
You post some Daily News story about an unrelated case to make your thickheaded point - again - Tookie Williams should die. You still give no indication you know anything about the facts surrounding the particular case in question. There is no sound reason for anyone to take anything you say on this matter seriously.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 09:23 pm
All I asked for was some concrete evidence.
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Instigate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 09:40 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
All I asked for was some concrete evidence.


Here ya go
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Nov, 2005 10:12 pm
I've read much of the link. Will bookmark and read it over more thoroughly when I am not so tired.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 08:49 am
 


Over the past few years there has been a lot of controversy and opinions regarding the life of Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

So just who is Stanley "Tookie" Williams?

Williams, now in his 50s is currently on California's Death Row. He was born in Shreveport, La. and moved to South Central Los Angeles with his divorced mother. It was in his teenage years that Williams befriended Raymond "Truck" Washington and several others local teens in the neighborhood. Williams has similar interest as the other group, including avoiding school, running the streets, drinking and at the age 13, sniffing glue.

At the age of 16-years-old, a time when most play after school sports, learn to drive and chase girls, Williams chose another path. He helped co-found a gang we now know as the Crips. Shortly later, he became addicted to the mind-alerting drug PCP.

Over the next several years, William continued his criminal lifestyle, as he said in a media interview later, he could have been a victim or an aggressor. He chose to be an aggressor. In 1979, the same year Washington was murdered, Williams became what some would define as a serial killer.

On February 28, 1979, around 4 AM, Williams had his eye on a 7-Eleven store. After two already unsuccessful robbery attempts, Williams found the store clerk, Albert Owens, out front sweeping the parking lot. Owens, who now would have been a grandfather, was ordered back into the store where Williams told him to lie on the floor. It was after Williams collected less then $122.00, Williams shot Owens execution style in the back. He then shared the spoils of the crime with three others, who would later provide information about the crime to the police.

After the robbery Williams was quoted as having told his brother "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him!" Williams then made a growling noise and laughed hysterically.

A little over a month later on March 11, young Robert Yang woke up to the sound of screaming and gunfire. Robert lived with his family in a modest motel they owned on South Vermont Street in Los Angeles. Robert woke as Williams was robbing the hotel of $600.00. Before leaving, Williams murdered Robert's father, mother and his sister to prevent being identified. Williams used the same gun that he was identified as purchasing years earlier.

A decade later, after attempting to escape prison, Williams with the encouragement of an author, began writing children's books. He documented his life behind bars and suggested to children to stay away from gangs. Years later, one of William's own lawyers argued in court that it was not Williams who wrote the books, but was done by the author using his name. William's denies that claim.

Ironically, in 2001 Williams was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the message in his books and as a political statement to bring attention to our nation's death penalty laws. As a result, Williams, a four time murderer, continues to receive a lot of positive publicity from a variety of organizations and professionals who are unfamiliar with his life and the circumstances of his crimes.

Many base their opinion after watching the movie Redemption. Did you know that Know Gangs actually provided assistance with some historical information about gangs in the 1970s for the making of this movie? It was after we saw the final version that we became very curious about who Williams was and what the evidence was against him. In the movie, Williams was portrayed as an innocent man wrongly convicted (as was the TV movie about Scott Peterson, who was convicted of murdering his wife and unborn child).

We were very curious as to what type of evidence had been presented against him in court. Based on the amount of publicity he now receives, we initially thought the case against him may be weak or with little evidence.

We were wrong! We actually found the evidence to be quite strong. The shotgun he purchased was used in the murders, he bragged of the killings to several witnesses and even his own friends and roommates testified against him. People who were also involved in the crimes provided evidence against him.

We called lawyers, we called cops, we called correctional officers, we called victim's families, we read court transcripts, we read police reports and we viewed crime scene pictures.

We learned that he had an excellent defense team. His lawyers were able to keep all of his prior gang affiliation out of court. Some of William's supporters feel that Williams was pinned for the crimes by police because they blamed him for the city's gang problem.

In the late 1970s, when these crimes occurred, the Crips were still a relatively small problem. It wasn’t until the mid-1980s when crack cocaine hit, that the Crips and Bloods became known in Las Angeles and it wasn’t until the late 1980s, that anyone outside of Los Angeles knew who the Crips and Bloods were. There were many gangs in Los Angeles long before Stanley “Tookie” Williams. Few officers knew who Williams was, nor did they know of his gang involvement. It wasn't until nearly 20-years-later that Williams put the spotlight on himself by promoting the fact that it was he (along with many others) who created the Crips.

After being sentenced by a racially mixed jury, Williams was convicted and sent to death row. Some William’s supporters claim that his jury was all White, which is not correct. Did you know that one of the jurors overheard Williams say, "I'm going to get each and every one of you mother fuckers!"

Over the past decade Williams' attorneys have attempted a variety of means to get him a new trial, searching for technicalities; the verdict has always been strongly upheld.

Arguments have been made by his attorney's that he was brain damaged and not capable of knowing right from wrong at the time of the crime. They said he was too high at the to know what he was doing.

http://www.knowgangs.com/blog/tookie.htm
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 04:44 pm
Instigate wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
All I asked for was some concrete evidence.


Here ya go


Thanks for the link. A few pages were missing, but I read every page that was available. The information provided amply demonstrates that Stanley "Tookie" Williams is exactly the kind of offender that the death penalty was designed to punish. As a human being, Williams has no redeeming qualities. If Williams doesn't deserve to die for his crimes, then no one deserves to die.

The question is whether the death penalty should be banned entirely. We don't have the death penalty in my state. It's not because the majority of the people in my state are against the death penalty, it's because the tax base in my state is too small and we can't afford the death penalty. The financial impracticability of imposing the death penalty has made the decision for us. That is fine with me. We have no "stars" in our prisons.

The death penalty has unfortunately made the monstrous Tookie a "star" in the eyes of some people and in the eyes of his criminal followers. He has been glorified when nothing he has done in his life is worthy of glorification. Ironically, Tookie's conviction and the imposition of the death penalty has probably saved Tookie's own life and gave him many more years than he would have had otherwise.

If he had been left on the streets, he undoubtedly would have continued to commit armed robberies and kill innocent victims to get rid of witnesses. He undoubtedly would have turned his shot gun on people in his own neighborhood and his own gang if they defied his authority or if he thought they might "snitch" on him. He undoubtedly would have killed or caused the death of rival gang members. If left on the streets, he was doomed to die a violent death himself in the gang wars or in a shoot-out with the police. If he hadn't been placed on death row--if instead, he had been placed in the general prison population, his life probably would have been snuffed out years ago with the thrust of a shank. He's a violent criminal and he chose his own destiny.

How many millions of dollars does it cost the State of California every year to impose and enforce the death penalty? Why bother with the death penalty and allow killers like Tookie to be glorified through the process? But for the imposition of the death penalty, Tookie would be just another scumbag criminal placed behind bars for the rest of his life. If the people of California were thinking smart, they would abolish the death penalty. Not because murderers have lives worthy of saving, but because these violent criminals aren't worth the enormous amount of time, money, and notoriety it takes to put them to death for their crimes.
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