Will the execution of Crips founder be a mistake?

Hold up. I know what happened. When I 'backspaced' out all of Roverroad's post except for the one line I wanted to reply to, I somehow missed xxxx-ing out where Rover quotes your post, Amigo. My bad after all. (If you look at the three posts, you'll see what I mean.)

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Maybe Tookie is just to powerful and enlightened of a black man to allow to live. Hell what if he gets masses of young black men to see the light and use there god given potential to really come up? We can't be having that. We need those young black men selling crack to there own race for the CIA.

Why should we exacute Tookie. People act like we live in a culture were there is any law or justice.

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roverroad wrote:

Amigo wrote:
I grew up surounded by black gangs. Crips only care about one thing. Money & bitches. You can't sling crack and pimp hoes rioting. Theres no money in it. They don't give a **** about Tookie.

Amigo, Well, that's a good point. But it's not just the gangs, what set the people off during the Rodney King riots, it was a political injustice, and I think a lot of young people are going to see this the same way.

By the way Snood, you can't rehabilitate a murderer. The people that he killed don't get a do over, so why should he. Let him rot in prison.

Hmmmm?

I think most humans are capable of murder, certainly of homicide. I haven't read that much about Tookie. Gather he has really rehabbed from some, and I do agree it is quite possible. Someone posted or I read some article, where he was still directing this and that. May be, I dunno.

People can get involved in warlike behavior on the streets, early, and can pull out of it with maturity.

I'm not a fan of capital punishment though; I'm one of those rads who doesn't like killing in the name of the state as punishment.
In William's case, it seems punitive in the extreme.

Me, I don't think unrest will happen - it's not in the heat of the summer, weatherwise or metaphorically. But it would be unrestful.

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I just seen more on this in the news. Tension is building. KFI (Rush Limbaugh's station) is calling for Tookie's execution in a very snide celebrative kind of way thats pretty sick. Looks like there might be another good old fashion L.A. riot.

I'm not dismissing justice for tookies victims but alive he could be the one person young black inner city men will listen to. Were others fail he can succeed. unleash the man and let him stop all the little Tookies that may grow to kill somebody else.

Why kill a man that can serve his community in such a profound and effective way. Redemption

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Agree.

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That settles it then. SAVE TOOKIE !!!

besides how do you kill a guy nammed Tookie?

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<waiting for the barrage>

I guess I have to separate these - I don't like executing anyone. (watching myself be dismissed, flick)

And, in this case it seems particularly stupid.
Though I don't follow all of them re vileness of the malefactor. Many of the others could be particularly stupid too.

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Isn't it bizarre that the way we show the world that it's wrong to kill is by killing the killer? Hmmm...

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Yes, actually. And not very useful, past that.

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Amigo wrote:

Maybe Tookie is just to powerful and enlightened of a black man to allow to live. Hell what if he gets masses of young black men to see the light and use there god given potential to really come up? We can't be having that. We need those young black men selling crack to there own race for the CIA.

Why should we exacute Tookie. People act like we live in a culture were there is any law or justice.

Why? For the same reason the State of Texas executed Karla Faye Tucker: Because she committed a heinous crime, was convicted, and was sentenced to death.

Tookie Williams is a convicted multiple murderer. If he is the best role model that you can find to inspire "masses of young black men," you're probably not looking hard enough.

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Texas is not California (thank god). Karla Faye tucker admitted her guilt in the murders. Tookie maintains his Innocence. Also the evidence has come into question coming from the most notoriously corrupt police department ever anywhere at that time. LA's Rampart division.

Also Tookie has written nine childrens books on the perils of gangs and violence and has been nominated for the nobel peace prize five times.

Fredrick Douglas could be a better role model. Can we get south central black young men to take Fredrick Douglas on as a role model? No we can't just like we can't get Bill cosby to be there role model. There going to pick there own and tookie can be that person. Tookie I believe is at the head of a anti-gang movement. He could be a tool that cannot be replaced. Is he worth more to society alive or dead?

Like I said before theres many more black youths getting ready to make the same mistakes Tookie made interring a life of gangs and violence. Tookie may be the only person they could identify with that they would listen to that now denounces gangs and violence. Were talking about kids that can't be reached by just anybody.

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God, thank you Amigo. Those young people don't listen to just anyone. Jim Brown's Amer-I-Can Organization is the only other entity I can think of that has taken hold in the effort to turn gangmembers into productive members of society. It's so easy to say "they can find another role model", but I suspect those kids would have as much trouble finding someone who really cares about their future as we're having here -finding those who care if Tookie dies.

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Personally I do not care either way. However, if the stay of execution is based upon his rehabilitation and the good he has done while in prison IMO it should stand. However, if it is based upon the fear of rioting it should be carried out. Justice should not be meted our based on the will of the criminal element. And if rioting should occur it should be dealt with in the severest way.

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Yeah so anyway, why don't you care? Because you don't know anyone who might be personally affected?

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The man is not a threat to society at all. So long as he remains convicted of those crimes, I favor keeping him behind bars. But there is nothing to be gained from killing him, and much to lose. If his books only reach the minds of a few, think of the rippling effect. Lives may already be saved as a result. He is actively being constructive with his life, something many free people cannot claim about themselves.

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Agree totally with y'all. Debra Law is missing the point, which Amigo has expressed quite well. Tookie Williams is an excellent role model precisely because he is a repentant killer. He is an example of the fact that one can turn one's life around, that even a feared former gang leader can become a peacemaker and non-violence advocate. This is the message I try to convey to the gang members I deal with on a daily basis: life is not a one way street. U-turns are allowed and even encouraged. There're a lot of really confused kids out there who think 'in for a penny, in for a pound.' There are those who feel they cannot get out of the violence of the 'hood, because that's all they know. Williams shows them it's not impoossible. Put him to death and you're helping to negate his message, not reinforce it.

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Snood
No I don't care because I have never before this given it any thought further I believe in capital punishment.. However, I think my views have been adequatly expressed. Never . never should justice be meted out based on a fear of the mob's reaction. That is a step towards anarchy.

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au1929 wrote:

Snood
No I don't care because I have never before this given it any thought further I believe in capital punishment.. However, I think my views have been adequatly expressed. Never . never should justice be meted out based on a fear of the mob's reaction. That is a step towards anarchy.

Well, here's hoping your "adequately expressed views" are still open to evolution along with all the rest of ours, presented with relevant information - and Happy Thanksgiving.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

Agree totally with y'all. Debra Law is missing the point, which Amigo has expressed quite well. Tookie Williams is an excellent role model precisely because he is a repentant killer. He is an example of the fact that one can turn one's life around, that even a feared former gang leader can become a peacemaker and non-violence advocate. This is the message I try to convey to the gang members I deal with on a daily basis: life is not a one way street. U-turns are allowed and even encouraged. There're a lot of really confused kids out there who think 'in for a penny, in for a pound.' There are those who feel they cannot get out of the violence of the 'hood, because that's all they know. Williams shows them it's not impoossible. Put him to death and you're helping to negate his message, not reinforce it.

He is not a repentant killer. He says he is innocent. Obviously, there is no repenting on his part for the murders of four innocent people. His message (according to Amigo) is that he was wrongfully convicted on the basis of questionable evidence gathered by a corrupt police department.

He turned his life around? He's been sitting behind bars for the last 25 years. Some role model.

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Amigo is right about that particular famously corrupt police department.

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Will the execution of Crips founder be a mistake?

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