1
   

Libby indicted

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:20 pm
dlowan wrote:
... and I despise patriotism.


Most lefties do.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:27 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
At the end of the day, here is what we have:

.


End of the day? WTF are you talking about? The investigation is ongoing. And no one has even begun to be tried. Congressional investigations are coming too.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:30 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Scooter will be found guilty.


Read the indictment. LOL

I guess Libby could plead insanity. I mean he promotes bestilaity with ten year old girls. Maybe he is nuts.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:31 pm
dlowan wrote:
Finn, believe it or not it's not all about America.

Then why do you, as an Australian, spend so much time on what amounts to an American political forum? It is all about America, at least in terms of geo-politics. I can understand why non-Americans might not appreciate this dynamic, but there it is. If and when China become the major power in the world, it will be all about China. However, unless China undergoes some radical changes, I think you are likely to look back on the All-America days with fondness.

I would deride such incredible blindness and stupidity from anywhere. If someone from another country makes such an obviously idiotic statement as you did, I will happily deride it also. So far, here, I have mainly seen it from such as you, though Ihave certainly had a go at an Australian here for similar idiocy.

Please. Reign it in. I couldn't care less whether or not you insult me, but you are repeating yourself and it is tiresome.

See, you are so America blind that you cannot actually see that it is the stupendous prejudice that you are being called on, not your Americanness.

Unlike you, I do not see the centre of all perfection in any one country, and I despise patriotism. I do not see perfection, nordeviltry in any country.

I have no doubt dear dlowan that you are unlike me. Specifically, you are unlike me in that you despise patriotism. So you despise love and devotion to one's country? How do you feel about love and devotion to one's community or to one's family? I know, you are a Humanist, you save your love and devotion for all the Human Race. Now, of course, love of one's family doesn't preclude love of one's community and love of one's community doesn't preclude love of one's country and love of one's country doesn't preclude love of the world...but, apparently, you belive otherwise.

I am the father of three and I love them all, but I do not make the mistake to believe that they are all three equal in anything but the extent of my love for them. (Thankfully, none of them are French or I would have myself quite a dilemma).


So, anyone who calls you on your blind stupidity is a hateful thug? And anti American?

No, of course not, but clearly that is not what has transpired, unless you are suggesting that Finn =America, and you subscribe to Carollinian logic.

Try as you might to avoid it, you clearly stated "Thank God we are not America." You did not state "Thank God I am not Finn," or "Thank God Australians are not Finnish."

It seems pretty straight forward to me that anyone who thanks God that her nation is not America can be described as anti-American. One doesn't usually implore The Creator to avoid confusing themselves with someone they respect.

Your bit about hateful thugs is but a twisted misinterpretation of what I wrote. Let me reiterate: Leftists, like yourself, most often find all sorts of reasons to excuse or rationalize the noxious behavior of hateful thugs (providing of course they cannot in any way be described as right of center of fundamentally Christian): Their parents were cruel, The Man had His foot on their necks, Huberistic America has sought their oil, etc etc etc. It is telling that you invoke God to wipe the earth of patriotic Americans rather than hateful thugs. It tells of the intellectuall bankruptcy of the current Left.



If all Americans thought as you I would most certainly thank any available deity for not being so born.

Whew...nothing extreme there. I suggest that the rest of the world cannot match up to the quality of the governmental system of America and I should never have been born? Seems to me that this is the very sort of extremism which you have implored God to utterly smite.

Thankfully, I think you a minority, but a larger minority than you have any reasonable right to be. I think American uber patriotism is a dangerous thing right now, with you guys having so much power.

And therein lies the rub...how dare we with power, take pride in that power and its origins. I sympathize with you dlowan. If I were an Australian, or a Brit or a Chinese, or an Iranian, or a Peruvian, or a native of any country in the world other than America, I would prefer my Americans to be humble and unassuming. I would much prefer that they pervceived my interests and the interests of my fellow non-American earthlings to be equal to if not more important than their own. I would much prefer them to spend their hard earned treasure on me and the rest of the world and ask for nothing in return. I would be delighted if they directed their military might towards rectifying only those global ills which I deemed worthy of attention. I would be content if their representatives on A2K agreed that my opinion and those on other non-Americans was more important that their own.

Hopefully views like yours will die out in all countries as we continue to evolve.

One can only hope.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:34 pm
dlowan wrote:



Thankfully, I think you a minority, but a larger minority than you have any reasonable right to be. I think American uber patriotism is a dangerous thing right now, with you guys having so much power.

Hopefully views like yours will die out in all countries as we continue to evolve.


It is not patriotism. Patriots don't defend traitors. Yes, the finn types are in the minority but too large a minority. It is frightening.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:36 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
At the end of the day, here is what we have:

.


End of the day? WTF are you talking about? The investigation is ongoing. And no one has even begun to be tried. Congressional investigations are coming too.


WTF am I talking about? Read what I wrote.

Apparently you are one of those who are desperately hoping that this relative tempest in a teapot will develop into Bush's Watergate.

Let's reconvene when it has all been put to bed.

If you are right I will confess to being not only wrong but foolish.

If I am right, I will expect an admission that your were wrong and a fool.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:38 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Scooter will be found guilty.


Read the indictment. LOL

I guess Libby could plead insanity. I mean he promotes bestilaity with ten year old girls. Maybe he is nuts.


This is a good example of someone who should never, under any circumstances, serve on a jury.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:40 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
dlowan wrote:
Thankfully, I think you a minority, but a larger minority than you have any reasonable right to be. I think American uber patriotism is a dangerous thing right now, with you guys having so much power.

And therein lies the rub...how dare we with power, take pride in that power and its origins. I sympathize with you dlowan. If I were an Australian, or a Brit or a Chinese, or an Iranian, or a Peruvian, or a native of any country in the world other than America, I would prefer my Americans to be humble and unassuming. I would much prefer that they pervceived my interests and the interests of my fellow non-American earthlings to be equal to if not more important than their own. I would much prefer them to spend their hard earned treasure on me and the rest of the world and ask for nothing in return. I would be delighted if they directed their military might towards rectifying only those global ills which I deemed worthy of attention. I would be content if their representatives on A2K agreed that my opinion and those on other non-Americans was more important that their own.


This one is a gem. I'm saving it in my Stetson.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:41 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Scooter will be found guilty.


Read the indictment. LOL

I guess Libby could plead insanity. I mean he promotes bestilaity with ten year old girls. Maybe he is nuts.


So the indictment represents a foregone conclusion that he is guilty?

I assume then that you have the same faith in the indictments of all defendants.

Guilty until proven innocent.

"Promotes bestilaity (sic) with ten year old girls."

Whoa...I guess I better reread the indictment with greater care.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:41 pm
I think he means at the end of this particular day. At 10:40 PM EST, there probably isn't going to be anything new breaking in this story before midnight.

Now as for tomorrow, or the day after, or the day after that-well, that could be a different story. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:43 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
dlowan wrote:



Thankfully, I think you a minority, but a larger minority than you have any reasonable right to be. I think American uber patriotism is a dangerous thing right now, with you guys having so much power.

Hopefully views like yours will die out in all countries as we continue to evolve.


It is not patriotism. Patriots don't defend traitors. Yes, the finn types are in the minority but too large a minority. It is frightening.


"The finn types"

We prefer to be refered to as The Finnish.

I knew I was frightening...wooha!
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:48 pm
I wasn't referring to the Finnish.That there are so many who claim to be patriots but defend traitors is, indeed, frightening.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:51 pm
This case is air-tight. To claim otherwise is delusional.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:55 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
I wasn't referring to the Finnish.That there are so many who claim to be patriots but defend traitors is, indeed, frightening.


If you were referring to the "finn types" then your were referring to "The Finnish," or, if you prefer "The Finnlanders," "The Finndanistas," or "Mujahafinn."

Not for a nano second did I mean to suggest that Laplanders were involved in this ridiculous exchange.

But now, I'm afraid, I must confess that I've taken the bait: Just who are these traitors that the would-be patriots are defending?
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:56 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Scooter will be found guilty.


Read the indictment. LOL

I guess Libby could plead insanity. I mean he promotes bestilaity with ten year old girls. Maybe he is nuts.


So the indictment represents a foregone conclusion that he is guilty?

I assume then that you have the same faith in the indictments of all defendants.

Guilty until proven innocent.

"Promotes bestilaity (sic) with ten year old girls."

Whoa...I guess I better reread the indictment with greater care.



You mean you read it? I doubt that.

Yeah Finn, why didn't you just correct the typo, You, of all people, should know how to spell bestiality.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 10:45 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

It is by no means a foregone conclusion that Scooter will be found guilty.


Read the indictment. LOL

I guess Libby could plead insanity. I mean he promotes bestilaity with ten year old girls. Maybe he is nuts.


So the indictment represents a foregone conclusion that he is guilty?

I assume then that you have the same faith in the indictments of all defendants.

Guilty until proven innocent.

"Promotes bestilaity (sic) with ten year old girls."

Whoa...I guess I better reread the indictment with greater care.



You mean you read it? I doubt that.

Yeah Finn, why didn't you just correct the typo, You, of all people, should know how to spell bestiality.


You are the saucy superheroine aren't you?

But, sticks and stones will break my bones...

Any particular reason why you are fixating on bestiality? Don't tell me Supergirl has a thing for Krypto!
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:08 pm
Quote:
ohn W. Dean, Findlaw

In my last column, I tried to deflate expectations a bit about the likely consequences of the work of Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald; to bring them down to the realistic level at which he was likely to proceed. I warned, for instance, that there might not be any indictments, and Fitzgerald might close up shop as the last days of the grand jury's term elapsed. And I was certain he would only indict if he had a patently clear case.

Now, however, one indictment has been issued -- naming Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis "Scooter" Libby as the defendant, and charging false statements, perjury and obstruction of justice. If the indictment is to be believed, the case against Libby is, indeed, a clear one.

Having read the indictment against Libby, I am inclined to believe more will be issued. In fact, I will be stunned if no one else is indicted.

Indeed, when one studies the indictment, and carefully reads the transcript of the press conference, it appears Libby's saga may be only Act Two in a three-act play. And in my view, the person who should be tossing and turning at night, in anticipation of the last act, is the Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney.



The Indictment: Invoking the Espionage Act Unnecessarily

Typically, federal criminal indictments are absolutely bare bones. Just enough to inform a defendant of the charges against him.

For example, the United States Attorney's Manual, which Fitzgerald said he was following, notes that under the Sixth Amendment an accused must "be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation." And Rule 7(c)(1) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure requires that, "The indictment . . . be a plain, concise and definite written statement of the essential facts constituting the offense charged." That is all.

Federal prosecutors excel at these "plain, concise and definite" statement indictments - drawing on form books and institutional experience in drafting them. Thus, the typical federal indictment is the quintessence of pith: as short and to the point as the circumstances will permit.

Again, Libby is charged with having perjured himself, made false statements, and obstructed justice by lying to FBI agents and the grand jury. A bare-bones indictment would address only these alleged crimes.

But this indictment went much further - delving into a statute under which Libby is not charged.

Count One, paragraph 1(b) is particularly revealing. Its first sentence establishes that Libby had security clearances giving him access to classified information. Then 1(b) goes on to state: "As a person with such clearances, LIBBY was obligated by applicable laws and regulations, including Title 18, United States Code, Section 793, and Executive Order 12958 (as modified by Executive Order13292), not to disclose classified information to persons not authorized to receive such information, and otherwise to exercise proper care to safeguard classified information against unauthorized disclosure." (The section also goes on to stress that Libby executed, on January 23, 2001, an agreement indicating understanding that he was receiving classified information, the disclosure of which could bring penalties.)

What is Title 18, United States Code, Section 793? It's the Espionage Act -- a broad, longstanding part of the criminal code.

The Espionage Act criminalizes, among other things, the willful - or grossly negligent -- communication of national-defense related information that "the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation." It also criminalizes conspiring to violate this anti-disclosure provision.

But Libby isn't charged with espionage. He's charged with lying to our government and thereby obstructing justice. So what's going on? Why is Fitzgerald referencing the Espionage Act?

The press conference added some clarity on this point.

Libby's Obstruction Has Blocked An Espionage Act Charge

The Special Counsel was asked, "If Mr. Libby had testified truthfully, would he be being charged in this crime today?" His response was more oblique than most.

In answering, he pointed out that "if national defense information which is involved because [of Plame's] affiliation with the CIA, whether or not she was covert, was classified, if that was intentionally transmitted, that would violate the statute known as Section 793, which is the Espionage Act." (Emphasis added). (As noted above, gross negligence would also suffice.)

But, as Fitzgerald also noted at his press conference, great care needs to be taken in applying the Espionage Act: "So there are people," he said, "who argue that you should never use that statute because it would become like the [British] Official Secrets Act. I don't buy that theory, but I do know you should be very careful in applying that law because there are a lot of interests that could be implicated in making sure that you picked the right case to charge that statute."

His further example was also revealing. "Let's not presume that Mr. Libby is guilty. But let's assume, for the moment, that the allegations in the indictment are true. If that is true, you cannot figure out the right judgment to make, whether or not you should charge someone with a serious national security crime or walk away from it or recommend any other course of action, if you don't know the truth.... If he had told the truth, we would have made the judgment based upon those facts...." (Emphases added.)

Finally, he added. "We have not charged him with [that] crime. I'm not making an allegation that he violated [the Espionage Act]. What I'm simply saying is one of the harms in obstruction is that you don't have a clear view of what should be done. And that's why people ought to walk in, go into the grand jury, you're going to take an oath, tell us the who, what, when, where and why -- straight." (Emphasis added)

In short, because Libby has lied, and apparently stuck to his lie, Fitzgerald is unable to build a case against him or anyone else under Section 793, a provision which he is willing to invoke, albeit with care.

And who is most vulnerable under the Espionage Act? Dick Cheney - as I will explain.

Libby Is The Firewall Protecting Vice President Cheney

The Libby indictment asserts that "[o]n or about June 12, 2003 Libby was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. Libby understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."

In short, Cheney provided the classified information to Libby - who then told the press. Anyone who works in national security matters knows that the Counterproliferation Division is part of the Directorate of Operations -- the covert side of the CIA, where most everything and everyone are classified.

According to Fitzgerald, Libby admits he learned the information from Cheney at the time specified in the indictment. But, according to Fitzgerald, Libby also maintained - in speaking to both FBI agents and the grand jury - that Cheney's disclosure played no role whatsoever in Libby's disclosure to the media.

Or as Fitzgerald noted at his press conference, Libby said, "he had learned from the vice president earlier in June 2003 information about Wilson's wife, but he had forgotten it, and that when he learned the information from [the reporter] Mr. [Tim] Russert during this phone call he learned it as if it were new."

So, in Fitzgerald's words, Libby's story was that when Libby "passed the information on to reporters Cooper and Miller late in the week, he passed it on thinking it was just information he received from reporters; that he told reporters that, in fact, he didn't even know if it were true. He was just passing gossip from one reporter to another at the long end of a chain of phone calls."

This story is, of course, a lie, but it was a clever one on Libby's part.

It protects Cheney because it suggests that Cheney's disclosure to Libby was causally separate from Libby's later, potentially Espionage-Act-violating disclosure to the press. Thus, it also denies any possible conspiracy between Cheney and Libby.

And it protects Libby himself - by suggesting that since he believed he was getting information from reporters, not indirectly from the CIA, he may not have had have the state of mind necessary to violate the Espionage Act.

Thus, from the outset of the investigation, Libby has been Dick Cheney's firewall. And it appears that Fitzgerald is actively trying to penetrate that firewall.

What Is Likely To Occur Next?

It has been reported that Libby's attorney tried to work out a plea deal. But Fitzgerald insisted on jail time, so Libby refused to make a deal. It appears that only Libby, in addition to Cheney, knows what Cheney knew, and when he knew, and why he knew, and what he did with his knowledge.

Fitzgerald has clearly thrown a stacked indictment at Libby, laying it on him as heavy as the law and propriety permits. He has taken one continuous false statement, out of several hours of interrogation, and made it into a five-count indictment. It appears he is trying to flip Libby - that is, to get him to testify against Cheney -- and not without good reason. Cheney is the big fish in this case.

Will Libby flip? Unlikely. Neither Cheney nor Libby (I believe) will be so foolish as to crack a deal. And Libby probably (and no doubt correctly) assumes that Cheney - a former boss with whom he has a close relationship -- will (at the right time and place) help Libby out, either with a pardon or financially, if necessary. Libby's goal, meanwhile, will be to stall going to trial as long as possible, so as not to hurt Republicans' showing in the 2006 elections.

So if Libby can take the heat for a time, he and his former boss (and friend) may get through this. But should Republicans lose control of the Senate (where they are blocking all oversight of this administration), I predict Cheney will resign "for health reasons."

John W. Dean, a FindLaw columnist, is a former counsel to the President.


http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20051104.html
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:09 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
Quote:
John W. Dean, Findlaw

In my last column, I tried to deflate expectations a bit about the likely consequences of the work of Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald; to bring them down to the realistic level at which he was likely to proceed. I warned, for instance, that there might not be any indictments, and Fitzgerald might close up shop as the last days of the grand jury's term elapsed. And I was certain he would only indict if he had a patently clear case.

Now, however, one indictment has been issued -- naming Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff Lewis "Scooter" Libby as the defendant, and charging false statements, perjury and obstruction of justice. If the indictment is to be believed, the case against Libby is, indeed, a clear one.

Having read the indictment against Libby, I am inclined to believe more will be issued. In fact, I will be stunned if no one else is indicted.

Indeed, when one studies the indictment, and carefully reads the transcript of the press conference, it appears Libby's saga may be only Act Two in a three-act play. And in my view, the person who should be tossing and turning at night, in anticipation of the last act, is the Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney.



The Indictment: Invoking the Espionage Act Unnecessarily

Typically, federal criminal indictments are absolutely bare bones. Just enough to inform a defendant of the charges against him.

For example, the United States Attorney's Manual, which Fitzgerald said he was following, notes that under the Sixth Amendment an accused must "be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation." And Rule 7(c)(1) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure requires that, "The indictment . . . be a plain, concise and definite written statement of the essential facts constituting the offense charged." That is all.

Federal prosecutors excel at these "plain, concise and definite" statement indictments - drawing on form books and institutional experience in drafting them. Thus, the typical federal indictment is the quintessence of pith: as short and to the point as the circumstances will permit.

Again, Libby is charged with having perjured himself, made false statements, and obstructed justice by lying to FBI agents and the grand jury. A bare-bones indictment would address only these alleged crimes.

But this indictment went much further - delving into a statute under which Libby is not charged.

Count One, paragraph 1(b) is particularly revealing. Its first sentence establishes that Libby had security clearances giving him access to classified information. Then 1(b) goes on to state: "As a person with such clearances, LIBBY was obligated by applicable laws and regulations, including Title 18, United States Code, Section 793, and Executive Order 12958 (as modified by Executive Order13292), not to disclose classified information to persons not authorized to receive such information, and otherwise to exercise proper care to safeguard classified information against unauthorized disclosure." (The section also goes on to stress that Libby executed, on January 23, 2001, an agreement indicating understanding that he was receiving classified information, the disclosure of which could bring penalties.)

What is Title 18, United States Code, Section 793? It's the Espionage Act -- a broad, longstanding part of the criminal code.

The Espionage Act criminalizes, among other things, the willful - or grossly negligent -- communication of national-defense related information that "the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation." It also criminalizes conspiring to violate this anti-disclosure provision.

But Libby isn't charged with espionage. He's charged with lying to our government and thereby obstructing justice. So what's going on? Why is Fitzgerald referencing the Espionage Act?

The press conference added some clarity on this point.

Libby's Obstruction Has Blocked An Espionage Act Charge

The Special Counsel was asked, "If Mr. Libby had testified truthfully, would he be being charged in this crime today?" His response was more oblique than most.

In answering, he pointed out that "if national defense information which is involved because [of Plame's] affiliation with the CIA, whether or not she was covert, was classified, if that was intentionally transmitted, that would violate the statute known as Section 793, which is the Espionage Act." (Emphasis added). (As noted above, gross negligence would also suffice.)

But, as Fitzgerald also noted at his press conference, great care needs to be taken in applying the Espionage Act: "So there are people," he said, "who argue that you should never use that statute because it would become like the [British] Official Secrets Act. I don't buy that theory, but I do know you should be very careful in applying that law because there are a lot of interests that could be implicated in making sure that you picked the right case to charge that statute."

His further example was also revealing. "Let's not presume that Mr. Libby is guilty. But let's assume, for the moment, that the allegations in the indictment are true. If that is true, you cannot figure out the right judgment to make, whether or not you should charge someone with a serious national security crime or walk away from it or recommend any other course of action, if you don't know the truth.... If he had told the truth, we would have made the judgment based upon those facts...." (Emphases added.)

Finally, he added. "We have not charged him with [that] crime. I'm not making an allegation that he violated [the Espionage Act]. What I'm simply saying is one of the harms in obstruction is that you don't have a clear view of what should be done. And that's why people ought to walk in, go into the grand jury, you're going to take an oath, tell us the who, what, when, where and why -- straight." (Emphasis added)

In short, because Libby has lied, and apparently stuck to his lie, Fitzgerald is unable to build a case against him or anyone else under Section 793, a provision which he is willing to invoke, albeit with care.

And who is most vulnerable under the Espionage Act? Dick Cheney - as I will explain.

Libby Is The Firewall Protecting Vice President Cheney

The Libby indictment asserts that "[o]n or about June 12, 2003 Libby was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. Libby understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."

In short, Cheney provided the classified information to Libby - who then told the press. Anyone who works in national security matters knows that the Counterproliferation Division is part of the Directorate of Operations -- the covert side of the CIA, where most everything and everyone are classified.

According to Fitzgerald, Libby admits he learned the information from Cheney at the time specified in the indictment. But, according to Fitzgerald, Libby also maintained - in speaking to both FBI agents and the grand jury - that Cheney's disclosure played no role whatsoever in Libby's disclosure to the media.

Or as Fitzgerald noted at his press conference, Libby said, "he had learned from the vice president earlier in June 2003 information about Wilson's wife, but he had forgotten it, and that when he learned the information from [the reporter] Mr. [Tim] Russert during this phone call he learned it as if it were new."

So, in Fitzgerald's words, Libby's story was that when Libby "passed the information on to reporters Cooper and Miller late in the week, he passed it on thinking it was just information he received from reporters; that he told reporters that, in fact, he didn't even know if it were true. He was just passing gossip from one reporter to another at the long end of a chain of phone calls."

This story is, of course, a lie, but it was a clever one on Libby's part.

It protects Cheney because it suggests that Cheney's disclosure to Libby was causally separate from Libby's later, potentially Espionage-Act-violating disclosure to the press. Thus, it also denies any possible conspiracy between Cheney and Libby.

And it protects Libby himself - by suggesting that since he believed he was getting information from reporters, not indirectly from the CIA, he may not have had have the state of mind necessary to violate the Espionage Act.

Thus, from the outset of the investigation, Libby has been Dick Cheney's firewall. And it appears that Fitzgerald is actively trying to penetrate that firewall.

What Is Likely To Occur Next?

It has been reported that Libby's attorney tried to work out a plea deal. But Fitzgerald insisted on jail time, so Libby refused to make a deal. It appears that only Libby, in addition to Cheney, knows what Cheney knew, and when he knew, and why he knew, and what he did with his knowledge.

Fitzgerald has clearly thrown a stacked indictment at Libby, laying it on him as heavy as the law and propriety permits. He has taken one continuous false statement, out of several hours of interrogation, and made it into a five-count indictment. It appears he is trying to flip Libby - that is, to get him to testify against Cheney -- and not without good reason. Cheney is the big fish in this case.

Will Libby flip? Unlikely. Neither Cheney nor Libby (I believe) will be so foolish as to crack a deal. And Libby probably (and no doubt correctly) assumes that Cheney - a former boss with whom he has a close relationship -- will (at the right time and place) help Libby out, either with a pardon or financially, if necessary. Libby's goal, meanwhile, will be to stall going to trial as long as possible, so as not to hurt Republicans' showing in the 2006 elections.

So if Libby can take the heat for a time, he and his former boss (and friend) may get through this. But should Republicans lose control of the Senate (where they are blocking all oversight of this administration), I predict Cheney will resign "for health reasons."

John W. Dean, a FindLaw columnist, is a former counsel to the President.


http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20051104.html
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:17 pm
Hey, Twin - hang in there. Finn doesn't think he can get anyone to exchange posts with him unless he's acting ignorant and lowbrow. Well, he's not acting...
anyway, you know what I mean.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:17 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
And therein lies the rub...how dare we with power, take pride in that power and its origins..



Nothing wrong with pride in one's origins. Nothing wrong with pride in one's power.

There is something wrong with a belief in one's superiority, though. For obviously, saying that one's nation is superior to every other nation is the same as saying that every other nation is inferior to one's own.

Now, there are many names for a belief in the inferiority of other countries, races, peoples or beliefs. None of them particularly charming.

You've been caught as the supremacist you are. Whatever. For some reason you're now trying to sell it as patriotism. But then, patriotism seems to be so easy to hide behind, so why shouldn't you do it, too?
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