What I Think About Abortion

@Mame,

Mame wrote:

And I agree with you that Downs Syndrome is an inappropriate reason to abort a fetus. Lots of Downs Syndrome children grow up to be absolutely charming and often productive individuals.

But you can...it is legal. I remember when I was pregnant ... They have some sort of blood test you can take to see if might potentially be having a baby with downs syndrome. It is a regular test they give to pregnant women..if this test comes positive they then do an amniocentesis to determine for sure...which has some risk to cause a healthy child to abort. The idea of all this is so a woman can decide to abort if they do not want a downs syndrome child or to prepare for such a child that was how it was explained to me.

I declined the test

1 Reply

@Linkat,

It may be legal, but that doesn't seem to me to be a good reason. Of course, if the parents don't want it, then it shouldn't be born, but I have interacted with many adults and kids with Downs Syndrome over the years and have found most to be quite charming, so it wouldn't be my choice.

And adoption is also an option for when the pregnancy has progressed too far for an abortion.

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@izzythepush,

Yes things have happened perhaps not at the speed that one would like ... There are stronger guns laws ....there is a greater awareness so that we do have people reporting when they hear of teens and others on social media making such claims and these have stopped other cases.

Changes have occurred and continue to...

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@izzythepush,

You need to read some US papers - they covered it. If your papers covered everything that happens in the States, it wouldn't be a British paper. It was all over the news, from what little info they had on the guy, his charges, to whether they're going to charge the parents, to the tribute to the murdered kids.

1 Reply

@Mame,

There seems to be a lot of hand wringing, but very little seems to get done. After Dunblane legislation was passed, with overwhelming public support to make sure something like that never happened again.

Any talk of modest gun control gets hit with a storm of freedom bullshit.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

There seems to be a lot of hand wringing, but very little seems to get done.
Any talk of modest gun control gets hit with a storm of freedom bullshit.

I agree. I was just speaking to the outcry.

I read this morning or yesterday about a 2 yr old who accidentally shot his father while playing with dad's gun. He killed him. They are considering whether to charge the mother.

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Since laws don't require a woman to have an abortion, why would it make sense to have a law that forces a woman to give birth?

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
You’re really not being very honest here.

I'm endeavoring to answer as honestly as I can. You evidently don't agree with me but that doesn't mean I'm dishonest.

I agree, and will add that these accusations of being dishonest are both tiresome and not at all productive.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

That sounds like conscription.

Nobody is forced to join the military and today women in the military are as free to kill people as men.

Stop confusing people with facts.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
You added a lot of things there.

Yes, being born and interacting with the external world adds a lot to one's quality of life.

Quote:
You’re really not being very honest here.

I'm endeavoring to answer as honestly as I can. You evidently don't agree with me but that doesn't mean I'm dishonest.

Quote:
It’s a little insulting, but I understand.

At least I never accused you of being dishonest.

Quote:
You’re trying to say it’s a person when it comes out, but not before it comes out.

As I had to explain to maxdancona, it's an arbitrary, but age old, distinction which recognizes the futility of trying to determine when
a gestating human becomes a fully human being.

Quote:
For the last time ( he said, drawing back his hammer and positioning his nail on the eel’s neck), do abortions sometimes kill a person, or not?

Yes, if the mother dies during the procedure.

And you know that’s not what I was asking.
You will under no circumstances consider the fetus a living person, as long as it’s inside the mother?

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@neptuneblue,

Quote:

When a young man turns 18, he is required to sign up for Selective Service. The aim is to go kill other human beings. Right or wrong, men get told they HAVE to go kill other humans.

Let's talk about why it's ok for a man to kill but not a woman.

1. Even in war, there are rules that soldiers have to abide by.
2. Soldiers can be charged and convicted of war crimes.

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@neptuneblue,

Quote:

There are many examples where humans do kill and it IS socially acceptable to do so.

When a loved one is too ill and on Life Support, a doctor will ask to "pull the plug." That family member has to decide to kill.

In this context, it is ok to kill another human being, correct?

1. That would be very hard and difficult moment for any family to have to pull the plug of a family member.

2. With that being said, families do make that hard difficult decision to pull the plug.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

hightor wrote:

Quote:
You added a lot of things there.

Yes, being born and interacting with the external world adds a lot to one's quality of life.

Quote:
You’re really not being very honest here.

I'm endeavoring to answer as honestly as I can. You evidently don't agree with me but that doesn't mean I'm dishonest.

Quote:
It’s a little insulting, but I understand.

At least I never accused you of being dishonest.

Quote:
You’re trying to say it’s a person when it comes out, but not before it comes out.

As I had to explain to maxdancona, it's an arbitrary, but age old, distinction which recognizes the futility of trying to determine when
a gestating human becomes a fully human being.

Quote:
For the last time ( he said, drawing back his hammer and positioning his nail on the eel’s neck), do abortions sometimes kill a person, or not?

Yes, if the mother dies during the procedure.

And you know that’s not what I was asking.
You will under no circumstances consider the fetus a living person, as long as it’s inside the mother?

AS long as the fetus is in a woman womb it is her and her alone choice to carry the fetus to full term or not.

Love how the Texas government now wish to tell a child of say 13 that if she is impregnated by her father or her brother or her uncle she must carry that fetus to full term anyway.

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I’ve gotten some static for trying to get a straight answer about if abortion can ever be considered as the taking of a human life.

I’m okay with the tap dancing, because Mame answered right upfront and honestly, and it addressed the issue and she did it including her honest feelings.

So I can move on from it.

Thanks again, Mame.

1 Reply

@snood,

I disagree.

My choice to have an abortion shouldn't have to be dependant on me justifying my actions to you or any one else.

My guilt or happiness belongs to me and me alone.

That's the only honesty you deserve.

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@snood,

Quote:

You will under no circumstances consider the fetus a living person, as long as it’s inside the mother?

Why would I? I don't know what possible circumstance could alter the relationship of the fetus to the external world – it's pretty much a given; there's no "womb with a view". For me a "person" is a manufactured sense of a self based in large part on social experience. I recognize the human status of a fetus but I don't think that it's a "person". That's something it will grow into.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Quote:
You will under no circumstances consider the fetus a living person, as long as it’s inside the mother?

Why would I? I don't know what possible circumstance could alter the relationship of the fetus to the external world – it's pretty much a given; there's no "womb with a view". For me a "person" is a manufactured sense of a self based in large part on social experience. I recognize the human status of a fetus but I don't think that it's a "person". That's something it will grow into.

So (and I promise to stop), in your mind killing a fetus is a separate and distinct different thing than killing an infant that’s an hour old - the mores or morality that speak to taking a life do not apply to a viable fetus?

1 Reply

@snood,

Correct. The decision is that of the mother alone, not society.

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@Mame,

Quote:

Some women are bothered for years after having an abortion. A friend of mine over 40 years ago made that very tough decision and I know she didn't make it lightly. I think some women do feel very strongly that it's a human being and the guilt often haunts them.

1. You have definitely articulated a valid point.
2. Ultimately it is the right of the woman to make the choice.
3. It might be a good idea to at least (offer) women counseling prior to making that final choice.
4. Who knows, maybe after receiving counseling they may choose not to go through with the abortion.
5. But ultimately, it's still the right of the woman to make the choice.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

I (offer) the co-ersion is unacceptable.

Again, what you are offering is that fickle women don't know what they want, can't be trusted to make their own decisions and their choice can be swayed by office personnel designed to make them feel guilty for deciding their own health.

That's bullshit.

2 Replies

What I Think About Abortion

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