One event changes attitude in UK-----how strange

I had to rethink my answer to deb when i saw this today:

"In a statement distributed after his guilty pleas, Rudolph portrayed himself as a devout Christian and said the bombings(of abortion clinics) were motivated by his hatred of abortion and a federal government that lets it continue."

What if Rudolph had graduated from a bible college? Is this what you were inferring deb?

goodfielder wrote:

...Suddenly the contradictions (at least in my mind) disappeared. Those threats are too great to ignore. There is a natural limit to tolerance and those who would call for the overthrow of the west's liberal democracies to be replaced with Islamic states need to be dealt with. In my own mind at least this is the line in the sand moment. I have a personal preference for the complete separation of religion and politics. I despise the idea of theocracy. Not for me the total submission to god that Islam demands. That is slavery.

Okay messy thinking but for mine those who advocate this should face a criminal trial and imprisonment/deportation.

Enough.

Yep, sadly, that's about where I'm at right now, too. And sadly (again) I have personal experiences that have led me to the same conclusion. There is a limit to tolerance. <sigh>

.....

Do we already HAVE anti-hate speech legislation? I seem to recall it faltered over free speech.


These are very difficult issues re free speech vs where we have a right to protect ourselves and our society.

Two-thirds believe London bombings are linked to Iraq war

Labour losing battle to convince public

Julian Glover, political correspondent
Tuesday July 19, 2005
The Guardian

Two-thirds of Britons believe there is a link between Tony Blair's decision to invade Iraq and the London bombings despite government claims to the contrary, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today.
The poll makes it clear that voters believe further attacks in Britain by suicide bombers are also inevitable, with 75% of those responding saying there will be more attacks.

The research suggests the government is losing the battle to persuade people that terrorist attacks on the UK have not been made more likely by the invasion of Iraq.

According to the poll, 33% of Britons think the prime minister bears "a lot" of responsibility for the London bombings and a further 31% "a little".
Only 28% of voters agree with the government that Iraq and the London bombings are not connected.

The poll follows repeated efforts by the government to stress that al-Qaida attacks, including September 11, took place before, as well after, the invasion of Iraq.

Yesterday a government spokesman said the prime minister had told the cabinet that people who used Iraq to justify the London bombings had "a perverse view of Islam".

The foreign secretary, Jack Straw, dismissed a thinktank report which argued that there was a link between the invasion of Iraq and the bombings.

The report by Chatham House, formerly the Royal Institute of International Affairs, said: "There is no doubt that the situation over Iraq has imposed particular difficulties for the UK, and for the wider coalition against terrorism."

Mr Straw said in Brussels yesterday: "I'm astonished Chatham House is now saying that we should not have stood shoulder to shoulder with our long-standing allies."

"The terrorists have struck across the world, in countries allied with the US, backing the war in Iraq and in countries which had nothing whatever to do with the war in Iraq."

But the Guardian/ICM poll shows the public believe that Britain's frontline role has made the country a more obvious target. And it shows that while Britons have reacted relatively calmly to the attacks earlier this month - with 83% saying they were no less likely to travel into central London and 75% saying they were just as likely to use the tube - the public does want the government to respond with new legislation.

A clear majority - 71% - want the government to exclude or deport from the UK foreign Muslims who incite hatred with only 22% believing such people should be allowed to live in the UK.

That may give some comfort to ministers as they seek to persuade opposition parties to support new laws making it an offence to incite terrorism.

But the poll also shows that despite the attacks, there is increasingly limited public support for ID cards.

Only 53% of those questioned said they believed ID cards should be brought in to help in the fight against terrorism - a fall on previous findings before and after the bombings.

Reflecting the relative cross-party unity that has dominated politics since the attacks, the poll also finds that Labour's poll lead remains almost unchanged on last month's Guardian/ICM findings.

Despite public unease about the prime minister's decision to support the invasion of Iraq, Labour has the support of 39% of voters (up one point on last month), the Conservatives 31% (no change) and the Liberal Democrats 23% (no change).

· ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,005 adults aged 18+ by telephone between July 15 and 17. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

But, aren't you sort of pissed at how the Irish had their land stolen?

To me, I know they're people and they've lived there for generations--but the Protestants were given land stolen from the Irish. It's not fair (to me) that the majority was transplanted to Ireland in one of the most diabolical attempts at genocide in modern history.

(Been reading about current genocides. Terrible.)

(You are a breath of fresh air. <nods>

I'm going to have to put away genocide for another day, I think. I'm getting sad and angry. Not a good combo for me, as I have no chocolate in the house for a counter balance!)

OK Steve I'll play the game one time but after some thought I want to modify the list :

The following are tied for first place in the Hate America rating:

Al Jazeera, BBC, New York Times, LA Times, Castro, Saddam, Bin Laden, all Lunatic members of Al Queda, all other lunatic members of any Islamic Fascist extremist group, Chirac, Teddy Kennedy, The Guardian.

Then the others which are all very close to first place
Noam Chomsky
Gore Vidal
Jane Fonda
The Hollywood Left
Steve (4100).......Blatham
John Kerry
Howard Dean

I've missed several no doubt and will try to make up for any omissions later

Oh for Christs sake.........you all are acting like I just stole your lollypop.

Grow up and move on.

I want to make one last statement before I withdraw from this thread for good. From what your very efficient police dept has learned about the 4 bombers, it is blah de blah etc..........

If we don't get serious about eliminating the preaching of hatred, we will continue having random terrorist bombings and hollow, meaningless arguments like those I have witnessed on this thread.

You all continue with the insults.

OKbye

Neurotic indigination is so English... Perhaps you could have some tea and calm down a bit?

Neurotic indigination is so English... Perhaps you could have some tea and calm down a bit?