One event changes attitude in UK-----how strange

Actually, yes I would like a spot of tea...

Do you agree that we should not allow topics to be discussed on A2K? Are you in agreement that should censor the topics because someone might be offended?

A2K would be a sparse forum if that ever happened...

Besides, I consider myself to be included when LE uses such terms as "or any other like minded Americans" and "you and your ilk".

I consider myself to be like minded and part of Rayban's "ilk"...

Of course topics should be discussed. No, we should not censor because someone may be offended. Otherwise, you would not have responded to Lord Ellpus' post.

A2K is anything but sparse.

Your last line speaks volumes. :-)

Lash I believe you were talking earlier about the wicked British plantationists stealing Catholic land. Quite by chance I came across this today, which I'm sure you agree is relevant...

"Those that scaped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escaped. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemies in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie."

William Bradford, History of the Plymouth Plantation, of Captain John Mason's attack on a Pequot village on the Mystic River

What is so bizarre to me is that you--or anyone--thinks that because a country is guilty of something, it's inhabitants should not complain about any other country.

If this is our standard, everyone should zip their lip pronto.

I have MANY TIMES agreed that a couple of periods in American history are heinous. And?

The British are in a position to take their mits off of NI and allow the Irish to work out their destiny with NI's inhabitants.

If all of the Native Americans had been on an island, and we had the authority and ability to give it back--I'd be screeching from the rafters that we do so. As I said--no one expects the NIslanders to be uprooted and the population of the US isn't moving. We aren't in the same position the UK is re the Irish.

However, if the balance of A2K cares to adopt your standard of not criticizing other countries if they have soiled history, I'd GLADLY oblige. My country would like a break from the hypocritical whining.

Meh.

....and arrogant insensitivity is so Republican American.

I know which characterisitic I would rather have.

"I think they have such a guilt complex about raping the citizens of the globe for the past 300 years with their imperialsm, that they are desperately trying to find a scapegoat to deflect attention from their crimes."

Well I certainly feel guilty about not whacking you guys properly in 1776.

As if.

Now the TRUE Rayban shows his colours.

So much for "holding the British in such high regard" bullshit. When people like this see that they have made a balls up, they find it impossible to apologize for some reason, and turn to the attack, usually using the supreme tactic of utter stupidity.

Now he is starting to sound like Lash. This is exactly what she does, with her dreamy eyes cast toward the suffering Emerald Isle, using her brain that is still locked in the 1600's.

If he analyzes what he has done here, he has played the gormless fool, straight into the hands of Al Qaida. One of the main objectives is to split the Western world, and cause them to fight among themselves.

Maybe he is on the payroll?

Good job, Rayban. You have really endeared your British readers to your ideaologies.

I, for one, have seen the light and now fully support your divine leader in his quest for world dominance.

I love Britain.

Now, get your mits off Ireland.

Carry on.

I am not saying it should be censored and you know it!
I strongly defend the right of free speech, and I also defend MY right of free speech when I wish to tell someone that I consider him to be a jerk, for creating this thread at such a time, in such a tone.

It was set up to be antagonistic, and he knows it.

Dont get your star spangled knickers in a twist if I call him a wanker for being the creator of such a divisive piece of garbage, written and posted before the smoke cleared.

If I had wanted it censored, I would have PM'd the Administrators of A2K.
I would not dream of doing such a thing.

I wasn't around in 1776 to be whacked. Sorry.

When the DEMOCRATIC vote of Northern Ireland decides that they want to separate from the UK, I will be first in line to shove it up the rear orifice of anyone who wishes to have it.

Thank you, I think.

Steve,

No need to feek guilty. Your folks (and their Hessian hirelings) tried very hard. However they were throoughly defeated, at Saratoga, Trenton, Cowpens, and finally Yorktown.

How did the subject stray this far? The Revolution is long past and we have become friends with the British, bailing them out of serious difficulty twice during the last century and enjoying their assistance in some of the Cold War and post Cold War conflicts of the current era.

The Irish question is largely settled. I doubt seriously that there is any desire in the Republic to take on Northern Ireland with its lagging economic performance, social troubles and recalcitrant Orange minority (now). Who needs it? Perhaps in a century or so a plausible proposal for union will arise, one supported by all sides. However until then this is a solution in search of a problem. Despite an history of oppression, intolerance, and exploitation, the British have, during the past thirty or so years, behaved with generally admirable restraint and justice over the "Irish question". During much of the past several centuries the British saw (often correctly) the Irish as all too willing to make a deal with whatever great power they were currently struggling with for domination in the West -- Spain, France, Germany. The Irish for their part saw only their own suffering and oppression. It's over now, we can let it go - raising up the memory only when needed to thwart an occasional bout of British forgetfulness and hypocrisy with regard to the policies and actions of others.

Lord Gormless....the hypocrisy of your words should be ringing in your ears.......The fact that you god damned Bush bashers have been playing into the hands of Al Queda ever since the Iraq war started is one of the reasons I started this thread because I knew your fuzzy thinking would soon be exposed. Your witless antics have divided the western world long ago.........you have had your head buried in the sand long enough; please extract it before you make more of a fool of yourself.

Blair, Muslim leaders vow to confront extremism
CTV.ca News Staff

British Prime Minister Tony Blair met today with leaders of the Islamic community to discuss ways to weed out extremists in the wake of the July 7 terror attacks.

Blair told reporters the gathering "revolved around the very strong desire of people from right across the Muslim community in our country" to deal with the problem.

"There was a strong desire from everybody there to make sure that we establish the right mechanisms for people to be able to go into the community and confront this in a serious way," Blair said.

Blair, who held a news conference with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, said people should be wary of those who connect the London bombings of July 7 with Britain's involvement in the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

"Of course these terrorists will use Iraq as an excuse. They will use Afghanistan," said Blair.

"Sept. 11 happened, of course, before both of these things, and then the excuse was American policy, or Israel. They will always have their reasons for acting. But we have got to be really careful of almost giving in to the perverted and twisted logic with which they argue."

Karzai acknowledged that Afghanistan had continuing problems with terrorists, who have carried out a series of attacks in recent weeks on Muslim clerics. But he insisted al Qaeda would never return to a position of power in the country.

Karzai added that terrorists indulge in nothing but savagery.

"The terrorists are only after human life. They feel happy when they cause suffering in Afghanistan, when they cause suffering in Britain, when they cause suffering elsewhere,'' he said.

The meeting between the leaders comes as a new poll for The Guardian newspaper suggests two-thirds of Britons believe Blair is partly to blame for the London suicide bombings.

People were asked to what extent Blair's decision to join the invasion of Iraq was responsible for the bombings.

Thirty-three per cent said the prime minister bore "a lot of responsibility", and 31 per cent they thought he had "a little" responsibility. Another 28 per cent said they thought he was blameless.

Militants held in Pakistan

In other developments, police in Pakistan say they are holding seven militants who may have had links with the London bombers.

Police officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the detained men were from militant groups Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Jaish-e-Mohammed. Both groups are linked to al Qaeda.

On Monday, authorities in Pakistan revealed that three of the four suspected bombers had travelled to Karachi in the last year. It is not clear why they were in the country.

All three were British citizens of Pakistani origin.

Security officials believe one of the men -- Shahzad Tanweer, 22 -- spent time in many mosques and madrassahs, or Islamic schools, during his most recent visit to Pakistan.

Tanweer arrived and departed from Karachi with fellow suspect bomber Mohammed Saddiq Khan, 30. They were in Pakistan from November to February 2005.

The third suspected bomber -- Hasib Hussain, 18, arrived in Karachi in July. Details on when he left the country are unclear.

Egyptian had 'no link' to bombs

Egypt's cabinet, meanwhile, said Tuesday that Egyptian biochemist Magdy El-Nashar had no links to the bombings in London.

Egyptian authorities last week detained El-Nashar after the blasts. The 33-year-old said he knew one of the bombers, but he insisted he knew nothing of the bombers' plans and has denied playing any role in the attacks.

"The cabinet ... took note of the report by the Interior Ministry which clarified that the Egyptian chemist had no link with the al Qaeda organization or with the bombings," a cabinet statement said.

The Interior Ministry had previously said El-Nashar had no link to al Qaeda.

Source

Rayban,

I don't think it is either useful or accurate to term Elpus as either witless or a fool. He has demonstrated a high degree of practical common sense and a balanced viewpoint on most of these issues. Moreover he has rather openly acknowledged his motivation on a number of these questions. We disagree on a number of important, specific issues, but that is a very differnt matter.

I'm all for vigorous argument on the substance of areas of disagreement, or different interpretations of generally only partly descriptive facts on both sides. However that does not require one to (mis)characterize the person with whom you are arguing. If you truly think Elpus a fool then could you not properly be considered a fool for arguing with him so persistently?

I was going to say something to the same effect, but George used more words, so I will agree with what he has so sensibly stated here.

Take it down a notch.

It is a tragedy that during discussions that create strong emotions such as this one, responses always escalate into personal insults. I have generally believed that the person who first resorted to such language has lost the argument because it is a sign they have lost their ability to reason. If anyone can go back and produce a statement of mine to prove that I was the first to indulge in a personal insult to Lord Ellpus..........I will write a personal apology to Lord Ellpus.

If however, it could be proven that he was the first to use a personal insult toward me, then I would expect an apology from him.

rayban

A good start. Even better to apologize for your own lapse in behavior in an unqualified manner, leaving him to deal with his own.