1
   

One event changes attitude in UK-----how strange

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:36 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Joe is a lawyer and a very skilled writer. We can all appreciate that, but sometimes it's easier to let someone else write for you when you agree with what they have written.


Now you taken to insulting lawyers Laughing Laughing I am not a lawyer. JoefromChicago may be on your mind. Thanks for the compliment, and I promise not to get you mixed up with Rayban1 again who writes this kind of stuff:

Rayban1
Quote:
I thought I had made it clear that I have great respect for the resilience and indomitable spirit of the English people. What I have a real problem with and I think you and many of your kind have just come to realize, is that your tolerance for multiculturalism has created the monster that attacked you.

Yes...I am from middle America but we are in firm control of reality and are making good progress in rescuing America from the same brand of multiculturalist elites that has ruined your country.
emphasis mine.

Yes, yes, let's get rid of all those folks who are not like us. We need to be white, believing Christians, with a clear sense of the danger presented by the present condition. We should form cadres of some sort, maybe we could name them after special people who fit the best definition of non-multicuturalistic. How about the Timothy McVeigh Unit? or the David Koresh Brigade? We could have special mention for people who clearly see the multicultural problem for what it is yet try to stay under the radar like the Strom Thurmond Memorial Club or The Republican Southern Strategy Outreach Program.

Things aren't going so well here in New York City, Rayban, there are those people everywhere you look. Salsa music on the radio and non-definition kinds of people reading the news on TV. They just opened a new Thai restaurant in my neighborhood. I think a Haddasic Jew has bought one of the co-ops across the street. The building is full of them.
And don't get me started about Hassan Ali and his cousin Mohammed from Guyana, I have to work with them.

Maybe you could tell about some of that good progress you are making and how you are accomplishing it? Oh, and don't forget to include what country you live in because I know it can't be the United States.

Joe(There are so many brown people, I'm kinda rosybeige)Nation
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:38 pm
Lash wrote:
Walter.

Call it what you want. I know what I mean. Ireland was taken by force and has been starved, relocated, oppressed and practically caged.

I say it is wrong and Ireland should be freed from English rule.



Shocked

you live in a dream world
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:40 pm
Lash wrote:
Yah. That's why they bombed the hell out of England. Fireworks, out of control...

Spare me. You don't speak for the Irish.



a few fanatics not the majority please note
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:44 pm
Ireland was relocated?

to where? Boston?

Guatamala?

Come on Lash, you can do better than that.

Its not even as if the Irish sea has a tectonic fault line.

How did we move a whole island?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:47 pm
Joe Nation, Are you sure you not a lawyer? Shocked

Perhaps you should check your CV to be sure. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Vivien
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:54 pm
Lots of nationalities went to America and oppressed the native peoples -Lash, McG and Rayban obviously feel this was no problem, whereas their pet issues are

I'm finished with this utterly pointless conversation with closed minds.

Closed minds like this are the cause of terrorism, an inablility to see the other side or respect another opinion or religion - Bush and Islam or Paisley and Adams.

(Joe and Walter and Msolga and McTag are a breath of fresh air and commonsense).
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 03:59 pm
(Joe and Walter and Msolga and McTag are a breath of fresh air and commonsense).

oi watta bout me?

Joe Walter Olga and Taggieperson do not have a monopoly on commonsense or personal fresh air quality
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 04:14 pm
That's very true, Steve, and I'm going to go through your posts and find some common sense or an instance of personal fresh air quality, or you could write some now. (no pressure.)


Joe(extremely common and, at certain times, not so fresh)Nation
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 04:43 pm
Thanks Joe

Steve ((as in common sense and fresh air) 41oo)
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 06:42 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Ireland was relocated?

to where? Boston?

Guatamala?

Come on Lash, you can do better than that.

Its not even as if the Irish sea has a tectonic fault line.

How did we move a whole island?

Insolent jester!

<a crack upon his head with my scepter>

Where did the Protestants come from? The ones now occupying Northern Ireland?

Anyhoo-- What do you perceive me to be saying that has miffed you, Vivien? You don't think Ireland should be returned to the Irish?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 06:44 pm
PS-- My air is quite fresh.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 07:08 pm
goodfielder--Steve--vivien--anyone else who wonders why one might be so adamant about Ireland--

The Northern Ireland of today was created artifically by the English. Therefore, those ought not to be able to keep Ireland under British rule.

Read this please.

Since the Reformation, Northern Ireland had been a Protestant nation. But Northern Ireland's native people were Catholic. Religion, along with land dispossession, rights and sovereignty issues, became a source of conflict and uprisings.

Irish History : The Reformation

From the middle of the 16th century the Protestant Reformation was sweeping across Europe asserting the primacy of private conscience and justification by faith only. Starting with Henry VIII, the English monarchy adopted the new Protestant faith. Those subjects who refused to adopt the Protestant faith both in Ireland and Britain were considered to be disloyal to the crown and were penalised in various harsh ways. They were also excluded from all positions of power and authority. Thus the colonial struggle became also a religious struggle, not so much on matters of faith and morals but more so in terms of the establishment versus the disestablished. But even in matters of faith many Protestants came to believe that the Church of Rome was the Antichrist spoken of in scripture. This belief influenced their attitude towards Catholics and offered justification for many of the harsh penalties inflicted on Catholics. To this very day sections of extreme Loyalism still hold this view.

Irish History : The Plantations

A system of Plantation was now used by the English crown to both protestantise Ireland and at the same time reward loyal English Protestants. The native Catholic Irish were evicted from large tracts of land and supplanted with loyal Protestant subjects. The most successful of all the Plantations was the Ulster Plantation of 1609, under King James I. Some 35,000 loyal English and Scottish Protestants were given tracts of the best land in Ulster with instructions not to mix with or trust the native Irish Catholics who had been dispossessed. They were to build walled towns and see to it that the reins and trappings of power remained always with them and never reverted to the native Irish Catholics.

They are still doing it!!!
Thus were the seeds of the present Troubles in the North of Ireland sown … a power struggle that by its very nature pitted Catholic against Protestant in the way that the oppressed will always oppose the oppressor.

Irish History : Cromwell
Oliver Cromwell, the most hated man in Ireland's history, arrived in Ireland in 1649. His slogan was chilling, "To hell or to Connnacht". Every man, woman and child who was not considered loyal to the English Parliament was to be deported to the poorer lands of Connacht or else put to the sword. He started his bloody crusade in the town of Drogheda where his soldiers spent three days slaughtering men, women and children so that the streets ran red. Today two of Drogheda's streets are named Bloody Street and Scarlet Street. Cromwell was convinced that he was carrying out God's holy will and read from his bible while the slaughter was taking place. Amazingly a very recent poll in Britain showed that Oliver Cromwell is considered by British people to be among the greatest Englishmen of all time!

Inexcusable!!!

Irish History : The Penal Laws

Shortly after the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 the Penal Laws were introduced. Under these draconian laws no Catholic was allowed to own land, receive education, hold arms, stand for Parliament or even vote. A price was put on the head of every priest and bishop, and Catholics were forbidden to attend Mass or practise their faith. "Mass rocks" sprang up in isolated outdoor locations and the people continued to worship at the risk of their very lives. The rosary was said in the secrecy of the family home. One hundred and fifty years of misery followed this official policy of keeping the native Irish Catholics poor, ignorant and powerless. In 1829 the Catholic Emancipation act was passed, largely due to the efforts of Daniel O'Connell. This brought a measure of relief to the Catholic peasantry.

Irish History : The Famine

By the 1840's the population of Ireland stood at over eight million and the peasant people were in abject poverty. The potato crop failed three years in a row and over a million people died while a further million emigrated, mostly to America, but also to Australia and Britain. It became known as the Great Famine and its traumatic effects are still to be felt in the Irish psyche. It was around this time that the ancestors of former Presidents John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan took the emigrant ship to America. These ships became known as "coffin" ships since so many people died on board. In the thirty years following the Great Famine over half a million Irish families were evicted from their homes by ruthless absentee landlords in order to make way for pasture land. Is it any wonder that today the need to own their own home is so deeply ingrained in the psyche of the Irish people?

Sonsobitches!!! They starved them!!! Another of the most heinous treatments of humans by others in history. Time to get off of them!!!

Free the Irish!! Get off their land!!!!


<<Directed only at the British government and anyone who thinks they have a right to squat on Irish land. All others, go in peace. I always get very upset when I read this. I'd like to punch the Queen right in the face.>>
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 07:54 pm
Ireland has a bloody and tragic history and the English are the latest in a long line of vicious invaders. But Northern Ireland is the legacy of historical English totalitarianism. The conundrum is how to deal with it when the majority (apparently) of people in Northern Ireland want to stay with Britain. I know I've over-simplified it but to me that is the central question.

My other concern is that unification might well destroy the Republic. Jumping at shadows? Exaggerating the potential? Probably. But at the moment the Republic has its own democratic system of government with settled parties and policies. Sinn Fein/IRA are avowedly leftist and hard left, not social democrat or even democratic socialist.

gf (my fresh air is mainly between my ears) Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 08:35 pm
But, aren't you sort of pissed at how the Irish had their land stolen?

To me, I know they're people and they've lived there for generations--but the Protestants were given land stolen from the Irish. It's not fair (to me) that the majority was transplanted to Ireland in one of the most diabolical attempts at genocide in modern history.

(Been reading about current genocides. Terrible.)

(You are a breath of fresh air. <nods>

I'm going to have to put away genocide for another day, I think. I'm getting sad and angry. Not a good combo for me, as I have no chocolate in the house for a counter balance!)
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:10 pm
Joe Nation" wrote:
Maybe you could tell about some of that good progress you are making and how you are accomplishing it? Oh, and don't forget to include what country you live in because I know it can't be the United States.


Joe......even though I suspect I am wasting my time, I will attempt to explain what I believe a multiculturalist is and to put that explanation into context in today's insane world.

There was a time not too long ago, that people wanted to come to this country not only for opportunity but to assimilate into the society here and to become an American. You can go to Japan but never become a Japanese, you can go France and never become French, you can go to Germany but never become a German.....well you get the idea. But, you could come to America and become an American because this is, as they say the melting pot of the world. That is until some stupid f**king liberal decided that Hispanics should not be required to speak English and that we should have Spanish speaking teachers, and everything should have instructions in Spanish. Now I have nothing against the Spanish language, except when someone wants to come to this country for opportunity but does not want to become an American........that really pisses me off. It tells me that this SOB wants my opportunity, and wants my money, wants to take American jobs from Americans......but.....he doesn't want my culture. He wants his culture on top of everything else that he wants from me. To top that off, there's a bunch of Liberals who say that's OK......these a**holes my friend, are multiculturalists.

You say.....what's wrong with that? Immigration is the kep to our success and what keeps us fresh with new blood. That was true when immigrants wanted to become Americans and to assimilate into what has become the American culture. The danger is what has happened to the UK.......they have many cultures who don't want any part of the English culture but they want all the freedoms and all the advantages of being English. When that happens you no longer have a country full of Englishmen......you instead have a country full of many cultures tearing England apart.

On the other hand you have Australia......immigration is very restrictive and they have a country full of Australians.

I want America to once again be a country of many different nationalities who want to become Americans and who want to share in what used to be called the American dream. I think we should hang a sign on the door that says..........If you don't want to become an American...keep right on truckin".

So you see Joe, I like other nationalities and I want them to come here. They can even keep their culture as long as they want to learn and speak my language during business hours, and as long as they don't try to force their culture on me or my family. Those are the conditions.....if you can't abide by them, you are free to go to Canada or anywhere else but don't put your bags down here.

This is to D'art...what ever your name is. You accused me of doing nothing but cutting and pasting and you defended Joe for stating what he believes.......well this what I believe and I didn't cut and paste it.....will you defend me? Naw, I didn't think so.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2005 11:15 pm
Lash wrote:

Since the Reformation, Northern Ireland had been a Protestant nation. But Northern Ireland's native people were Catholic.


You might not be aware of it but this is true for ALL parts of Europe (where now is an evangelical/protestestant region).
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2005 05:28 am
Quote:
"rayban1"
Joe......even though I suspect I am wasting my time, I will attempt to explain what I believe a multiculturalist is and to put that explanation into context in today's insane world.

There was a time not too long ago, that people wanted to come to this country not only for opportunity but to assimilate into the society here and to become an American. You can go to Japan but never become a Japanese, you can go France and never become French, you can go to Germany but never become a German.....well you get the idea.

But, you could come to America and become an American because this is, as they say the melting pot of the world. That is until some stupid f**king liberal decided that Hispanics should not be required to speak English and that we should have Spanish speaking teachers, and everything should have instructions in Spanish.

Now I have nothing against the Spanish language, except when someone wants to come to this country for opportunity but does not want to become an American........that really pisses me off. It tells me that this SOB wants my opportunity, and wants my money, wants to take American jobs from Americans......but.....he doesn't want my culture. He wants his culture on top of everything else that he wants from me. To top that off, there's a bunch of Liberals who say that's OK......these a**holes my friend, are multiculturalists.

You say.....what's wrong with that? Immigration is the kep to our success and what keeps us fresh with new blood. That was true when immigrants wanted to become Americans and to assimilate into what has become the American culture. The danger is what has happened to the UK.......they have many cultures who don't want any part of the English culture but they want all the freedoms and all the advantages of being English. When that happens you no longer have a country full of Englishmen......you instead have a country full of many cultures tearing England apart.

On the other hand you have Australia......immigration is very restrictive and they have a country full of Australians.

I want America to once again be a country of many different nationalities who want to become Americans and who want to share in what used to be called the American dream. I think we should hang a sign on the door that says..........If you don't want to become an American...keep right on truckin".

So you see Joe, I like other nationalities and I want them to come here. They can even keep their culture as long as they want to learn and speak my language during business hours, and as long as they don't try to force their culture on me or my family. Those are the conditions.....if you can't abide by them, you are free to go to Canada or anywhere else but don't put your bags down here.

This is to D'art...what ever your name is. You accused me of doing nothing but cutting and pasting and you defended Joe for stating what he believes.......well this what I believe and I didn't cut and paste it.....will you defend me? Naw, I didn't think so.


I think you'd better go back to cutting & pasting, Rayban. You've just proven yourself to be an incredibly bigoted, narrow-minded individual. Proven, because I suspected it all along.

I too, fear for your grandkids, but my fear is based on their having such an [it'll work again] incredibly bigoted, narrow-minded viewpoint driven into their poor little receptive skulls.

Have you seen the ad that's shown here at A2K sometimes. "How do you teach a man not to be abusive? Start when he's a boy." You can do something about it, Ray. You can stop the ignorance, the bigotry but you've got to try.

It's probably too late for you but help your kids and grandkids. Tell them, "Don't grow up like me."
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2005 05:53 am
Don't be so hard on Ray, on this one he's actually expressing himself, exposing his fearful, narrow-minded self, but expressing himself nonetheless.

The melting pot to which he refers was once real. When people came here to America they joined into the larger society by becoming something other than what they were, in other words, the melting pot melted off of them everything that didn't fit into American society. Got a bad accent? Lose it. Got an odd way of dressing? Change into these jeans. Think your daughter should only marry someone from the next village over in Italy. Fugettaboutit. Speak a foreign language? What are you kidding? Americans don't speak foreign languages, we hardly teach them in schools.

Of course, if everyone who came here actually did all those things, we wouldn't have the American culture we have today, full of influences from all over the globe. In the melting pot world, our novels would be dull. our food bland, and our music that of the 100 piece marching band.

People who think we can not have diversity have no faith in the US Constitution or the American idea of democracy. They are the ones who need to look at how well this place, this nation, embraces all human beings. It's not a perfect system, but it is the best hope for the most freedom for the most people ever devised.

Joe(Como esta usted?)Nation
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2005 09:15 am
Lash wrote:
Penal


Uh, huh, huh, huh,huh, she said "penal"

Laughing
0 Replies
 
rayban1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Jul, 2005 09:40 am
JTT

I meant every word of it.......I notice you didn't quibble about the definition of a multiculturalist. When we have the next attack in this country.......notice I said when...not IF........it will be because of the multiculturalist protectionism that allows that Fool Minetta (Secretary of Transportation) to prevent security people at airports from targeting those who have beards and profiles of ME terrorists and instead single out little old white headed ladies for strip searches.

God....the terrorists must be laughing at our stupidity.

The English are now examining the results of multiculturalism and I guarantee you will see some changes.
0 Replies
 
 

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