Attack in London Today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4680237.stm

About the bombers.

Peace,
E

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Lash wrote:

think--

The Crusades and the Inquisition are worn out. I don't think anyone is going to take those tired references as relevent any longer.

How about NOW.

And, you can't deny the influence of Islam on a growing number of adherents.

Did you read the testimony of the filth that murdered Theo?

What did you think of that?

You silly billy.

thethinkfactory was merely stating that the period that was happening then, is what is happening to Islam. Christianity and Islam did not begin at the same time, so what he's saying is their period of violence is similar to the Christian one, except that it's happened much later than the Christian period of religious violence.

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Lash:

You do realize the Spanish were killing what they deemed non Christians AFTER they tortured them up until the 1830's right? Historically I am speaking within the same era and the time that has passed, when viewed in the lense of history, is an eye blink. You can get all in an uproar about Theo Van Gogh's death as being barbaric - but I welcome you to look into the torure methods of the Christians historically up until very recently in America. In the world this torture still goes on - and I think you are uninformed of it's brutality. Apperantly the deaths of thousands at the hands of Christians don't make good news.

Take the case of Clayton Waagner. Never heard of him? No surprise - he was convicted threatening the use of weapons of mass destruction and 50 other federal charges. He mailed fake Anthrax to dozens of abortion clinics in America, shutting them down for weeks and causing thousands of dollars in losses, during the FALL of 2001. At the height of 9/11 he was mailing fake Anthrax - and we never heard about him nor his trial and conviction. He did this in the name of Christianity. Wicked?

But because the facts are 'tiring' to you and despite the millions dead due to a religion you deem appropritate I will talk more about "today".

For every Theo Van Gogh there is atleast one Dr. Barnett Slepian (murdered in cold blood with an Assault Rifle in front of his wife and Children). For every Al Queda there is atleast one Lord's Resistence Army (thousands dead in the name of Christ) or Christian Identity movement (bombing abortion clinics and assasinating Doctors in the name of Christ).

They both blow up buildings - abortion clinics or trade infastructure - they both kill innocent others based on thier religious belief - they are both considered not a part of thier religion by non extremists and still HISTORICALLY the body count of the muslims pales in comparison.

Islam is growing by thousands (I said above it is the fastest growing religion - so I 'admitted' it before you asked me to admit it) are you saying that Muslim extremism is the only type of Islam religious growth? That is like saying that abortion clinic bombers are the only Christians being coverted. You wish to paint an entire religion on the actions of a few - I am merely saying that is easily done with all religions and historically the most brutal you think are not 'wicked'.

TTF

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Lash wrote:
think--

The Crusades and the Inquisition are worn out. I don't think anyone is going to take those tired references as relevent any longer.

How about NOW.

And, you can't deny the influence of Islam on a growing number of adherents.

Did you read the testimony of the filth that murdered Theo?

What did you think of that?

You silly billy.

thethinkfactory was merely stating that the period that was happening then, is what is happening to Islam. Christianity and Islam did not begin at the same time, so what he's saying is their period of violence is similar to the Christian one, except that it's happened much later than the Christian period of religious violence.

Right. 1100 years in the case of Christianity and 1400 years in the case of Islam. I think this is a case of misunderstanding and ignorance. If the posters that think an entire religion is wicked they simply do not understand what the tenents of that religion are (love, alms for the poor and the like) nor understand it outside of the extremism protrayed for them on the news. Don't hear me as saying anyone is stupid - just uninformed or misinformed.

TTF

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"Islam is in the middle of serious growing pains. This was apperant for Christianity as a religion from 1100 or so to about 1400 during the crusades. Islam being the fastest growing religion worldwide is struggling to see where it fits in. "

Are Islamic people unable or unwilling to learn from the mistakes of other religions??? Are you suggesting this is justification for the actions of the extremists?

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Woiyo:

Loaded questions and you know it. Let me ask another loaded question:

Are you suggesting, as it has been suggested above that we should investigate entire religions and deem them 'wicked' because of the actions of a few of it's arguable adherents?

I and you both know good and well the answers to these questions.

Also, it could be argued that Islam has learned - they are well overdue, in my analogy, for a full out Crusade. One could argue not only they have learned but that thier religion is superior because of it.

I am not Muslim nor do I think this argument is any good - I am just responding with good and sound argumentation that Islam is no more wicked, and historially less militant, than other religions. Despute the facts... please.

TTF

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That's not a loaded question.

In the past 100 years, I do not recall "christians" acting the way ther Islamics are acting today. Thousands of years ago...yes.

So apparently, Islam is not willing to learn from others mistakes. Do you agree?

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Woiyo:

You didn't read my post above but felt fine in responding to me.

Lords Resistance Army and The Christian Identity Movement. Responsible for bombings, exectutions, abductions of children, assasinations and the like. And it is going on today.

You are uninformed.

TTF

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Sure did. Can not compare the IRA bombing as a "religious" struggle backed by an entire religion.

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That's a false parallel, as the entire Muslim religion does not support terrorism.

Cycloptichorn

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think-cyclops-wolf--

The Inquisition is over. Yes or no.

Christian extremists aren't in wars all over the globe. Yes or no.

RIGHT NOW, Muslim extremists ARE in wars in more than a few places and fueled by their religion. Yes or no.

The hierarchy of the Christian religion DOES NOT condone murder in the name of their religion. Yes or no.

There are Islamic religious leaders, who DO CONDONE murder in the name of their religion. Yes or no.

What is no longer tolerated here is the constant fanatical retreat to history to try and make a comparison between Muslims and Christians.

The tired line about those who know, accept and revile these facts being uninformed...or stupid....or bigots...or anything other than people who reject continued lying and subterfuge about this subject--won't be entertained any longer.

Why can't you face facts and answer truthfully?

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Lash

Don't expect them to answer..........if they do, their hypocrisy will be exposed.

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rayban1 wrote:

Don't expect them to answer..........if they do, their hypocrisy will be exposed.

.. says the one who answered everything himself.

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Do you care to answer the questions, Walter?

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woiyo wrote:

Sure did. Can not compare the IRA bombing as a "religious" struggle backed by an entire religion.

Never mentioned the IRA - thanks.

TTF

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Lash wrote:

Do you care to answer the questions, Walter?

Those who were asked to rayban? Why?

Yours? Besides your "think-cyclops-wolf--" that topic isn't and hasn't been my theme here.

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Lash wrote:

think-cyclops-wolf--

The Inquisition is over. Yes or no.

Christian extremists aren't in wars all over the globe. Yes or no.

RIGHT NOW, Muslim extremists ARE in wars in more than a few places and fueled by their religion. Yes or no.

The hierarchy of the Christian religion DOES NOT condone murder in the name of their religion. Yes or no.

There are Islamic religious leaders, who DO CONDONE murder in the name of their religion. Yes or no.

What is no longer tolerated here is the constant fanatical retreat to history to try and make a comparison between Muslims and Christians.

The tired line about those who know, accept and revile these facts being uninformed...or stupid....or bigots...or anything other than people who reject continued lying and subterfuge about this subject--won't be entertained any longer.

Why can't you face facts and answer truthfully?

These are the most loaded questions that could be asked - I will answer them, and with the truth you ignore in your loaded questions.

1) Yes - but because it is over you cannot brush thousands of dead under the rug to make yourself feel better.

2) No. Neither are Muslims nor Jews. But all three are engaged in skirmishes in the name of their religion . But to imply that Muslims are engaged in active warfare all over the globe is simply a misinformed non-truth. There are three quarters of a billion muslims - if all or even a large portion were at war the whole world would be actively at war. You really are seeing a relative handful. Unfortunately every night you are bombarded with that handful on the news. I don't blame you for being confused.

3) Arguable. To focus merely on the Muslims is to ignore other agressors. You have to ignore the Jews in Isreal and focus merely on the Muslims. You have to ignore the American's in Afganistan and Iraq and merely focus on the Muslims. If you chose to do so... sure.

4) Yes. Neither of the broad branches of Christianity (Catholic or Protestant) condone murder. However, to think that the stance of Sunni or Shi'ite religion condone terrorism is a misinformed and ignorant statement.

5) Yes. And their are Christian leaders who condone murder, terrorism, and war. I mentioned two such orginizations above. You ignored them but you cannot. They kill and terrorize thousands...worldwide.

This is NOT a retreat to history - did you not read my posts above? I have cited active and murderous Christian extremist groups that far outstrip AQ in their death toll. You have ignored them and posted loaded, ill-conceived bunk on this thread as a response.

You watch a one sided and ethnocentric media and claim to know facts. Look up and research what I have claimed and you will see it is based in fact. Yours is based in opinion - unsupported, one-sided, blind opinion.

However, I have answered your questions so why don't you reply with any sort of facts (FACTS) that allow you to state that Islam is a more 'wicked' religion.

TTF

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woiyo wrote:

That's not a loaded question.

In the past 100 years, I do not recall "christians" acting the way ther Islamics are acting today. Thousands of years ago...yes.

So apparently, Islam is not willing to learn from others mistakes. Do you agree?

Short and convenient memories, ... again, Woiyo, Lash, McG, ...

Quote:

Lynchings in America [by "christians"]
http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/african/2000/lynching.htm

Quote:

That's Entertainment?

In this country, people no longer watch black corpses hang from trees for fun. You could call that progress.

Lauren F. Winner

In May 1916, Joe Meyers, an oiler from Waco, Texas, bought a postcard and jotted a note to his dad: "This is the Barbecue we had last night." But the picture on the postcard, a 5½-by-3½-inch gelatin silver print, didn't show a pulled-pork sandwich. It was a photograph of Jesse Washington's corpse suspended from a utility pole, surrounded by onlookers, one of them Meyers.

...

Early-20th-century lynchings were public spectacles, entertainment. As W.E.B. DuBois observed in The Nation in 1925, "Negro baiting and even lynching [are] a form of amusement." That Meyers called Washington's lynching a barbecue is suggestive--parading around his corpse was every bit as much fun as rounding up the kids and the neighbors for a cookout.

...

Many wanted souvenirs. They cherished charred fingers and toes as though they were medieval relics. DuBois recounted walking down a street in Atlanta, heading to a meeting with Joel Chandler Harris at The Atlanta Constitution shortly after Sam Hose was lynched: "On the way the news met me: Sam Hose had been lynched, and they said his knuckles were on exhibition at a grocery store farther down Mitchell Street,

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/16/story_1639_1.html

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Again, JTT, you can take that crap back in time when it happened. We are talking about the here and now. And, we are interested in church-sanctioned killing.

Someone else may be interested in the history lesson.

We've all heard it.

Meanwhile--

think-- Kudos for addressing my questions.

However, a handful of extremists wouldn'tbother me.

This, however, gives me great concern. Did you know about these? Because it is obviously more than a handful.

Spain
Sudan (Arab North vs. Christian South)
Nigeria
Balkans States (SE Europe)
Russia (Chechnya region)
Israel
Iraq
India vs. Pakastan
China vs. Muslim seperatist (extreme SW region)
Thailand (southern muslims vs. buddist)
Indonesia (Bali, etc)
Phllippinese (mostly on the southern islands)

------

If you want to go through these to see who is the aggressor and who has massacred more of the other side, we can. One war at a time.

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I am not playing any more 'answer Lash' games until you answer mine - I asked for facts - not a geography lesson.

You are claiming that the Muslims are the "aggressors" in Israel? The sword always cuts both ways my fiend. To think that simply because these places have Muslims at war explains the "evil" of a religion is to simply look at every issue as one sided.

I would ask you to go back to 1945 to define your conception of aggressor in Israel - but that would be the past - and we can't do that. The past, to you, is tired and irrelevant.

TTF

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