Attack in London Today

Thanks TTF......At long last I feel there is sincere mutual respect and understanding from one who I had totally misread. Thanks for your service. Please pass on to me the comments of some of your buddies who are still in Iraq. Please no names or unit designations

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Sincere respect - your history informs your comments now.

I want to clarify as well - you have more years than I in service. I was up for e-5 when I 'retired'.

I did my tour and due to some medical problems (read a blown knee in service) I opted out and recieved an official medical discharge. Today I would be most surely allow to serve on.

I am never sure what to call it - retired - moved on - got salty and they tossed me out ... I chose to say retired. I did not want that to seem like a 'twenty and out' comment.

TTF

Hey....with a "blown Knee" you have paid your dues many times over and I hope your "retirement" will yield great rewards.

Quick question......what is your experience with the VA.....good or bad?

Stayed VERY far away from them - my brother blew his knee out as a butter bar and had FITS with the VA. Did a LOT of my own rehabilitation and have yet to have surgery. I can run short distances very well and with surgery could haev probably been up to PFT distances.

I hear and hope it is right that the current presiden is helping fund and rehabilitate the VA - our veterans deserve it.

TF

Wolf--


That would be a "no." The only censorship I submit to is that of the Moderators.

Further--if you have missed it, this is a long-standing joke-type adage.

To Rayban and TTF, thank you both for your service. I have great respect for you both. (Hey ... you too Set.)

Thanks Tico.....I hope your smilies spill only suds and no beer. :wink:

Man we are one big lovey fest here today aren't we?

When someone says - why can't we all just get along - lead them to THIS thread!

TF

Rayban1 said "You might want to ask yourself why Steve has so suddenly shifted his stance and whether or not you might be forced to do the same one day soon".



Rayban1, as you seem to be suffering under a delusion , LET ME MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR WHAT MY STANCE IS.

I supported the war in Afghanistan against al Qaeda. George Bush's diversionary, unnecessary, illegal immoral and fundamentally counter productive invasion of Iraq has been a disaster in the prosecution of that war.

I blame Tony Blair for being so naive as to think that Bush could impose a democratic western oriented regime in that country at minimum cost. It has cost a fortune in life and materiel. We acted illegally, it is a stain on us. Its has been improperly executed, to the benefit of the very Islamist extremists we set out in 2001 to destroy.

It has galvanised the Muslim world against us. In their eyes Iraq justifies whatever a few extremists do to us, be it the WTC or bombs in Madrid or London, irrespective of chronological order or rationality. Tony Blair said there is no justification for placing bombs on the Tube. Well said Tony, I think we can all agree with that. But its not Tony Blair or Steve41oo who are placing bombs on the Tube. Its Islamist extremists who believe they have every justification, because Allah has told them its right, and they can see for themselves injustice in Iraq, Palestine and other places of humiliation for the Muslims.

Finally I get very cross when Americans tell us (as Whooda did) that we Europeans are living safe cozy little lives insulated from the threat of al Qaeda attack, or that we know nothing of urban terrorism, (30 years of IRA, mainly funded by Americans) or that it has taken the London bombings to shock us out of our state of delusion, and get fully behind the fight against terrorism.

WE WERE AND ARE BEHIND THAT FIGHT. George Bush has made that struggle infinitely more difficult, and we in the UK are paying for that mistake. A woman who used to live not far from where I write was blown to pieces on the Piccadily line, just going to work. My friend's mother was severely injured the same day (in a road accident) only to find the local hospital virtually devoid of staff as they were all in central London.

Iraq is a quagmire from which only the terrorists gain. They must thank Allah for the incompetence of Bush and Co. It will now take a herculean effort to properly take control of that country involving many more troops and many more years of pain and suffering. Having taken control of the oil fields, I dont believe Bush is to prepared to make that effort, even if it means the islamists extremists enjoy free reign in the rest of the country, to perfect their bombing technique and kill my neighbour.

I hope my feelings on this matter are now clear.

One other thing Rayban, you asked permission to quote me elsewhere. I withdraw that unless to you make reference to this post as without it I believe I will be quoted selectively to give a totally false picture of "my stance"

Amen

I am feelin' Steve this morning.

Bout sums me up.

TF

Amen chorus.

And now I am devastated by news that the Iraqui constitution most likely will reflect fundamental Islamic law, including the maintaining of women as second class citizens. This is contrary to what Paul Bremer trumpeted while CEO of the rebuilding project.

Altogether a total waste of America's young warriors, for a society goes to war as a final resort, not as an option.

Steve

I completely understand your position and I can promise that I will never quote you. I do have some comments but it will be some hours before I can get back to you........I know you will sitting on pins and needltes. :wink:

Well said Steve

Yes. Especially a 'civilized society'.

"No one in their right mind wants to go to war." (Sergeant Kevin Benderman)

"These boys were turned old, fractured souls. Part of them was dead forever." (Film Director Oliver Stone - speaking of his platoon in Vietnam -Bravo Company)

"If we don't end war, war will end us." (Author H.G.Wells.)

War traumatizes without predudice. The most brutal and de-humanising legacy we could possibly leave behind us. Yes, there is a time to fight (1939 springs to mind) and there is also a time to weigh up the cost.
War mentally traumatizes youth on all sides - and so the damage goes on.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/HealthInformation/ptsdmenu.cfm

<nods>

So, panzade, is Steve an appeaser?

That word seemed to make some Europeans uncomfortable. Certainly it brings back bad memories of Chamberlain in 1939.
I'll lay it to rest.

I don't think the word should be retired.

Surely, Pan does as he sees fit, but my vote is for calling things what they are.

This is a repost by Steve from page 36 that started a string of rather strong opinions from the various factions here on the forum. Without rehashing any of the various strong positions about the Iraq war, I think it commendable of Steve to make the above very strong statement supporting Blair's equally strong resolve in fighting terror. (perhaps it is wrong to say that Steve is supporting Blair but I hope that is what he meant to do).

I want also to take this opportunity to state my profound admiration for the London police department, Scotland Yard, and MI-5 who have, within a very short time, rounded up all 5 of July 21 failed bombing suspects, plus many fringe personnel who have knowledge of the happenings. I would speculate that their quick action has prevented or at least postponed other planned attacks and it sends a strong message to Al Queda that they have awakened a sleeping giant who could smash their apparatus for terror making. They will surely go deep underground where they think they are safe but the talented and dogged determination of the Brits may smash them anyway when coupled with Blairs persuasive efforts to gain the full support and cooperation of the Moderate Muslim community.

There are signs that the Moderate Muslim community is at long last ready to step up and fight the radical element of their religion. We will see if they now will identify and report the radical clerics who preach hate within their community and have them removed.

Steve, you and all Brits, especially Londoners have earned our respect and you have my sincere hope that London will never again be subjected to this type attack

It is inappropriate timing to issue my following warning statement but I will say it anyway since I have already made so many enemies........it is the ultimate goal and intention of Bin Laden and all associated terror groups to turn New York and London into Western Hiroshimas with nuclear devices and they surely will do so unless we destroy them first.