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Why the Female Doctor Who is a flop.

 
 
Reply Mon 6 Jan, 2020 09:45 pm
The problem isn't that Doctor Who is a woman. There are great science fiction stories centered on strong women.

Orphan Black was awesome; a story centered around women protagonists banding together to fight an evil organization. They touched on feminist themes and empowerment. They even said they were fighting the "patriarchy". The story worked, even for an anti-feminist like me, because the characters were well written and the writing was centered on the story. When the characters said "The future is female"... I said "Heck yeah!" because I was thoroughly drawn in by the characters and by the story.

Every week now the ratings of Doctor Who drop further. And it is not surprising.... in previous seasons Doctor Who was an ancient Time Lord, the last of his kind, who stood up to aliens threats and faced down robot armies all while dealing with this own weakness. Now the Doctor spends too much time whining because men won't listen to her.

They could have written for a strong, confident Doctor who who happened to be a female (she isn't human). Moffat (the previous show runner) did rewrite one of the major characters just fine... Missy (who used to be The Master) was an awesome character who didn't let her gender get in the way of her being a bad ass. They turned the gender of the inimitable Doctor into a gimmick. Instead of starting by writing a strong story, they started with a lesson plan for some middle social studies class and then wrote episodes around it.

The goofy cackling new version of the Master (an old character that in the pass was brilliantly played by Michelle Gomez, John Simm, and Roger Delgado). It is a slap in the face to fans.

I don't care about the gender of the Doctor. The writing of the last season was atrocious and this year is starting. The hype of gender politics has run its course.

Give us good writing first and foremost. No one wants a social studies class, we want a good story.





 
View best answer, chosen by maxdancona
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 02:07 am
@maxdancona,
Don't watch it, it's not written for you and you clearly have no understanding of the Master's character.

You spend way too much time trying to say your hatred of the World's longest running SF show is not down to changing the Doctor's gender. Clearly you protest too much.

This isn't a programme for stupid Americans and they're not going to dumb it down for idiots like you.

Stick to Star Wars, it's very simple, you won't have to think for that.

Half of what you've written is clearly cut and pasted from somewhere else. You talk about Roger Delgado's performance but you never saw Doctor Who until Tom Baker became the Doctor, long after Delgado had left, and a year after he'd died.

As usual you're talking out of your arse, desperately trying to find a reason to not like this which isn't sexist.

You're not smart enough to pull it off, you're the only one daft enough to believe your horseshit.


Epic fail.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 02:25 am
@maxdancona,
The worst thing about Sunday's episode was Jodie Whittaker having to say 'previously on Doctor Who,' before showing the previous episode's footage because Americans are too stupid to work that out for themselves.
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 03:26 am
@izzythepush,
The reason why I don't like the show is there are too many unhappy endings when a companion departs.

I like my entertainment to leave me feeling happy, not sad. That's not to say that everything has to always be happy 100% of the time in order for me to like it, but they take the misery way too far for my taste.

And, are you capable of not engaging in personal attacks all the time? Good grief.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 03:33 am
@oralloy,
You like Star Wars because it's easy to understand. Doctor Who is way beyond your grasp. You can lie to yourself but don't try to fool the rest of us.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 03:45 am
@izzythepush,
There is nothing even remotely hard to understand about Doctor Who.

Off topic, but the Star Wars prequels are vastly improved with a proper fan edit. I kind of like the Q2 edits. Less really is more when it comes to the prequels. But I've not seen the latest by Hal 9000. I've been meaning to check out his latest releases.

You should try to have a pleasant conversation about TV shows without making personal attacks against everyone.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 05:32 am
@oralloy,
Yet you still don't get it.

Star Wars is cretinous nonsense that only appeals to stupid people.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 05:35 am
This thread, like all threads started by Max, should read "I'm not a misogynist but...."

All Max has done is paraphrase other's work in a failed attempt not to appear misogynistic.

The character of the Master is a prime example, if he knew anything about it he'd realise that John Simm's portrayal was similarly demented and hammy. It was just taken to the next level.
maxdancona
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:01 am
@izzythepush,
Where did I say I am not misogynist? What I am saying is that whether I am am a misogynist or not shouldn't matter. I am pointing out, with Orphan Black, that even as a misogynist I appreciate well written science fiction with strong female leads. Jody Whittaker as the Doctor doesn't fit this category.

Write me a good story with an interesting plot, ideas with depth and strong characters. That is all I am asking. Doctor Who under Chibnall is tepid and formulaic. Jodie Whittaker's Doctor is failing on all of these fronts. If there was a man in this current role with these current scripts, you would agree.

My daughter's comment after watching the first two episodes of this season was "I never thought I would say this, but God I miss Moffat".

Putting up with crappy writing and poorly developed characters in one dimensional stories simply because of the gender of the Doctor doesn't fly for me. And the ratings will keep dropping.




oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:32 am
@maxdancona,
If you are even mildly interested in police/crime type of shows, you should check out the British TV series Broadchurch.

Both David Tennant and Jodie Whittaker play major characters. And also Eve Myles (Torchwood) plays a major character in the second season.

It's kind of neat seeing all those Dr. Who/Torchwood actors in a non-Dr. Who setting.

And in my personal opinion, the writing and acting in Broadchurch is good.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:33 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Star Wars is cretinous nonsense that only appeals to stupid people.

No it isn't.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:41 am
@maxdancona,
I'm not surprised you didn't understand, you're not very good at that. In the same way racists say "I'm not a racist but.." and then go on to say something racist you could also claim not to be misogynistic and go on to attack women which is what you always do.

You don't like the new Doctor because of Jodie Whittaker but you're too much of a coward to admit it.

I've never heard of Orphan Black and have no desire to see anything you would describe as 'awesome.'
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:41 am
@oralloy,
I haven't tried Broadchurch. I am kind of partial to science fiction. I did greatly enjoy watching David Tennant in "Good Omens".

I have been watching Doctor Who since the 1970s, and now my daughter is hooked. We will keep watching... but come on, they are going to have to step it up. Personally I think that all the current writers on Doctor Who should be fired.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:47 am
@izzythepush,
Ok I am a misogynist. I admit it. Deal with it. (It is a subjective, meaningless term... but for you I will own it).

I like good, well written science fiction whether or not it has strong female leads. I loved Orphan Black. I even liked the Lady Ghostbusters. The reason I liked these shows is because they were well written with good strong characters.

I dislike poorly written science fiction whether or not it has strong female leads. I hated Waterworld (which I don't think even passed the Bechdel test).

Izzy is focused only on the gender of Doctor Who, and apparently disliking poor writing for a female doctor is misogyny. Izzy hasn't even commented on the writing.

I suspect Izzy would really like Orphan Black. It is one of the best science fiction series of this century. It is a group of clones; from all walks including a research scientist, a housewife and extremely deadly assassin. At the beginning they don't know they have cloned sisters... they have to find each other and figure out why there are hundreds of clones of themselves. The acting is amazing and the story is gripping. I say this even though the main characters wear t-shirts on the show that say "The Future is Female".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_Black
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:53 am
@maxdancona,
You're not a misogynist. You just favor gender equality, and a lot of feminists don't like that.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:53 am
I doubt it very much. Neither you nor Max have shown any understanding of serious Drama.

On a thread about Romeo and Juliet Max showed total ignorance.

If someone likes simplistic crap like Star Wars their opinion ain't worth ****.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:56 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I've never heard of Orphan Black and have no desire to see anything you would describe as 'awesome.'

There's a perverse justice in you missing out on a good TV show in an attempt to be spiteful towards people who aren't missing out on it.

I'd even go so far as to call it Karmic.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 06:57 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
I've never heard of Orphan Black and have no desire to see anything you would describe as 'awesome.'

There's a perverse justice in you missing out on a good TV show in an attempt to be spiteful towards people who aren't missing out on it.

I'd even go so far as to call it Karmic.


Maybe I did that on purpose. [mua ha ha ha (evil laugh)]
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 07:09 am
@oralloy,
What would be perverse would be to follow the recommendation of a stupid person who wouldn't know good Drama if it bit him on the arse.

I watch stuff recommended by intelligent people. That way I see plenty of good telly.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jan, 2020 07:14 am
Lenny Henry was very good, cast very much against type.

0 Replies
 
 

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