Keep warm: throw another koran on the fire

I don't need such direction. This is the appropriate thread. Since the topic of this post is a reference to American abuse of prisoners, and American hypocrisy about same, I am precisely on the nominal topic.

ebrown_p wrote:

[Come on, do you really think that if we don't keep prisoners in Guantanamo, our democracy will fail and we will all be forced to convert?

You are so right. Closing Gitmo will solve everything. I especially like that if we close it, we won't be criticized ever again.

So I vote for closing.

Let's relocate them all to, say.....the Hamptons?

ebrown_p wrote:

[Come on, do you really think that if we don't keep prisoners in Guantanamo, our democracy will fail and we will all be forced to convert?

JustWonders,

My point is that if Brandon can keep yelling that we are in a "life or death struggle", and enough people believe him, Americans will except things that they wouldn't accept otherwise. That is the point of saying "life or death struggle".

If we are not in a "life or death" struggle, we can continue to act with dignity according to our values.

What is happening in Guantanamo goes against the most basic ideals of America. They are being imprisoned without a trial, and with the chance to prove that they are innocent.

Implying that they are terrorists because they are Afghan Moslems, or accepting without proof that they are "illegal combatants" simply because the government says so, is un-American. Perhaps one or two of the prisoners had anything to do with 9/11, so bringing 9/11 up to justify the imprisonment of them all is illogical and wrong.

I wasn't saying that closing Guantanamo would solve everything.

I was just saying that Americans should expect that it's government act according to the ideals of the nation. The imprisonment of men who have not been convicted of anything without the chance of a trial is wrong and should be stopped.

The fake "life and death struggle" that has been invoked thousands of times may justify what would normally be injust..

Except there is no life and death struggle meaning there is no danger that our nation or way of life will cease to exist because of this threat.

So why can't we act morally.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Osama bin Laden's manifesto states that he requires us to convert to Islam, like it or not. We certainly are in a life and death struggle.

Could you provide a source for this? It sounds like you are making this up.

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

Anytime nationalists want to support an extreme government, they greatly exaggerate an external threat. This has happened countless times in history.

Come on, do you really think that if we withdraw troops from Iraq, or don't keep prisoners in Guantanamo without a trial, our democracy will fail and we will all be forced to convert to Islam?

I think you are greatly exaggerating the threat.

Interesting analogy re the Revolutionary War. I can't recall hearing that any of that happening (colonists protesting the treatment of British troops), nor can I see any parallels between the anti-colonial efforts of those Americans with what we're doing in Iraq now...

Or is it all lumped together under Whatever This Country Does Is Always Right?

Brandon9000 wrote:

I don't need such direction. This is the appropriate thread. Since the topic of this post is a reference to American abuse of prisoners, and American hypocrisy about same, I am precisely on the nominal topic.

No, the topic of the thread is the hypocrisy of those who think desecration of the koran is not a big deal but who think desecration of the flag is a huge deal. There are plenty of threads out there where you can bang your little tin drum about 9/11 and prisoner abuse.

joefromchicago wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

I don't need such direction. This is the appropriate thread. Since the topic of this post is a reference to American abuse of prisoners, and American hypocrisy about same, I am precisely on the nominal topic.

No, the topic of the thread is the hypocrisy of those who think desecration of the koran is not a big deal but who think desecration of the flag is a huge deal. There are plenty of threads out there where you can bang your little tin drum about 9/11 and prisoner abuse.

Since you started a thread about abuse of the Koran by Americans, it was on topic to point out how perverse it is to harp on your own side's comparitively minor abuses, but seem to have no interest in your side's struggle against a deadly, determined enemy. Your assertion that I'm off topic is both absurd and completely consistent with the liberal propensity for avoiding facing an opponent's argument head on.

We are not in a life or death struggle.

That 9/11 happened does not take away my responsibility to oppose my government when it does things I believe are immoral.

Brandon9000 wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

I don't need such direction. This is the appropriate thread. Since the topic of this post is a reference to American abuse of prisoners, and American hypocrisy about same, I am precisely on the nominal topic.

No, the topic of the thread is the hypocrisy of those who think desecration of the koran is not a big deal but who think desecration of the flag is a huge deal. There are plenty of threads out there where you can bang your little tin drum about 9/11 and prisoner abuse.

Since you started a thread about abuse of the Koran by Americans, it was on topic to point out how perverse it is to harp on your own side's comparitively minor abuses, but seem to have no interest in your side's struggle against a deadly, determined enemy. Your assertion that I'm off topic is both absurd and completely consistent with the liberal propensity for avoiding facing an opponent's argument head on.

Unbelievable.

How do you know Joe isn't simply worried because he's been burning american flags, that he got cheap in Mexico due to imperfections, to heat his house?

The fact that Brandon doesn't have a clue that his ranting is completely off topic.

I don't think I could explain it to you, Brandon.

What you just posted there, explaining what you think the topic is about, shows me that we are speaking completely different languages, and as I am busy learning italian right now, I don't think I can squeeze in learning another one right now.

Sorry.

kickycan wrote:

I don't think I could explain it to you, Brandon.

What you just posted there, explaining what you think the topic is about, shows me that we are speaking completely different languages, and as I am busy learning italian right now, I don't think I can squeeze in learning another one right now.

Sorry.

Translation - I am not one who meets arguments head on. I attack the person, not the argument. I forfeit.

Since you started a thread about abuse of the Koran by Americans, it was on topic to point out how perverse it is to harp on your own side's comparitively minor abuses, but seem to have no interest in your side's struggle against a deadly, determined enemy.

Your assertion that I'm off topic is both absurd and completely consistent with the liberal propensity for avoiding facing an opponent's argument head on.