Keep warm: throw another koran on the fire

Brandon, follow me. Yeah, that's right...just come this way and we will find the "Let's wine about everything except the topic thread". I will be leaving you once we find it because I know how you like to whine alone.

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Brandon, please do not let yourself be drawn in to threads like this one. Liberals need to be able to look down their noses at people sometimes and if you allow yourself to be baited by such tactics as this thread, you will allow them to look down their nose at you.

If anyone on this thread were actually interested in discussing this topic they would start a thread with much less sarcasm attached to it.

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McGentrix wrote:

Brandon, please do not let yourself be drawn in to threads like this one. Liberals need to be able to look down their noses at people sometimes and if you allow yourself to be baited by such tactics as this thread, you will allow them to look down their nose at you.

Too late.

McGentrix wrote:

If anyone on this thread were actually interested in discussing this topic they would start a thread with much less sarcasm attached to it.

In any thread involving the flag-burning amendment, the sarcasm comes naturally.

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i don't know why this is even an issue. i have never personally seen a flag burned by an american. less than a dozen times on tv in my lifetime. i have seen it dissed by foreigners in the news a few times, but they are not too likely to be affected by an amendment.

i'd much rather see an amendment (if we simply must have one ) that deals with desecration of our flag such as the miserable tattered state of many of those little "flag on a mini-pole" that people have been driving around with for the last 4 years. or the same state seen in the flags that are permanantly posted on street lamp poles. or perhaps the disrespect shown the flag by the hyper-patriotic folks that put out the flag on 9/11 and haven't bothered to take it down at sundown, as tradition dictates.

just more manna for the base, as this statement from the article shows;

Quote:

Scenes of foreigners burning American flags may be common on TV, but such desecration is rare in this country. The Citizens Flag Alliance, an advocacy group that supports a constitutional amendment, reports a decline in flag desecration incidents, with only one this year.

and this says a lot, as well;

Quote:

Norm Ornstein, a political analyst at the business-oriented American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research, says he expects "a cliffhanger." He says Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., is eager to bring up the issue, and some Democrats may be too nervous to oppose it.

frist continues to take on the really important issues, eh?

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http://www.stopviolence.com/images/9-11/priceless-terrorist.jpg

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In keeping with the thread, cjhsa, I take it that these are Americans that you have posted?

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I think cjhsa is performing a public service by drawing attention to the inherent dangers of burning a US flag. :wink:

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Ticomaya wrote:

I think cjhsa is performing a public service by drawing attention to the inherent dangers of burning a US flag. :wink:

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not only are they armericans, they are liberals (some of them may be vets). should be shot at sunset by other (conservative) vets. Directive to be issued by Dept Of Veterans Affairs in the near future. This directive will be issued in lieu of actual benefits assumed to be earned by actual vets. (naw sir boss, I dont need no new leg, the one you got me 15 yrs ago works just fine with the duct tape you sent 8 years ago)

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so cj, how do you suppose an amendment to the constitution will affect said terrorist a-holes ?

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Ticomaya wrote:

I think cjhsa is performing a public service by drawing attention to the inherent dangers of burning a US flag. :wink:

That may be the solution! Rather than passing a law mandating that all flags be made of fireproof material (as Intrepid suggested), we should pass a law mandating that all flags be made of extremely combustible material.

I recommend the material that's now used to make kids' pajamas.

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Not at all. Notice it isn't even a real flag. Laughing

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joefromchicago wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
When I recall how our people (men, women, and children) were murdered on 9/11, and when I consider what Al Qaeda would do to my country and countrymen if allowed to, and when I consider how Al Qaeda treats their prisoners (e.g. heads sawed off), winning the war with them is much higher on my list of priorities than how we are wronging our prisoners. The latter is on the list, and abuses should not be tolerated, but I am much more concerned with the wellbeing of my country. To be in a war with a brutal, implacable enemy and most concerned about how you are wronging him strikes me as very perverse.

Could someone please direct Brandon to the appropriate thread for this post?

I don't need such direction. This is the appropriate thread. Since the topic of this post is a reference to American abuse of prisoners, and American hypocrisy about same, I am precisely on the nominal topic.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
The latter is on the list, and abuses should not be tolerated, but I am much more concerned with the wellbeing of my country. To be in a war with a brutal, implacable enemy and most concerned about how you are wronging him strikes me as very perverse.

Brandon,

This sounds an awful lot like how Osama Bin Ladin justifies his wrongdoings.

I was hoping we were better than that.

This is non-responsive. Nothing about what I said justified wrongdoing on our part. Quite the reverse, since I explicitly said that such abuses on our part shouldn't be tolerated. This is more of the same, tired old misdirection from your crowd.

The point of my post is that it's perverse when in a life or death struggle with a brutal, implacable enemy to concentrate solely on abuses by your own side. It would be like an American colonist in 1776 harping on mistreatment of British prisoners by Washington's troops, but seeming to have no interest in the larger battle and no trace of loyalty to his own country. To cut off your predictable rejoinder, please note that nowhere in this post do I say, "My country right or wrong."

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Intrepid wrote:

Brandon, follow me. Yeah, that's right...just come this way and we will find the "Let's wine about everything except the topic thread". I will be leaving you once we find it because I know how you like to whine alone.

You follow the standard liberal practice of attacking the man not the argument. Typical behavior for those who cannot win on the issues.

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Brandon,

We are not in a life or death struggle.

We could very easily have avoided the war in Iraq, and we can now (not so easily) cut our losses, admit our mistakes and make a real plan to withdraw are troops.

Except for the extensive network of WMD's we found and dismantled, our actions in Iraq have, to anyone but the most biassed or irrational observer, made us less secure... not more.

This "life or death struggle" thing is trotted out every time nationalists need to defend an extremist administration.

The excesses of the 60's and the Vietnam war were justified by the "life or death" struggle against communism. When we finally left Vietnam, after far too many deaths, the world didn't end and our nation wasn't destroyed.

Yes 9/11 happened. It was a horrible crime and we should take steps to keep it from happening again.

But here is the point (and it seems from your response that you already understand this). Brutality does not excuse brutality.

That 9/11 happened does not take away my responsibility to oppose my government when it does things I believe are immoral.

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ebrown_p wrote:

Brandon,

We are not in a life or death struggle.

9/11, the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, the Cole, the embassies in Africa, the foiled millenium bomb plot. It should be clear to anyone that Al Qaeda intends to continue to attack us. Who believes that if they could command more powerful weapons they would not use them on us? Even Osama bin Laden's manifesto states that he requires us to convert to Islam, like it or not. We certainly are in a life and death struggle.

ebrown_p wrote:

...Yes 9/11 happened. It was a horrible crime and we should take steps to keep it from happening again.

But here is the point (and it seems from your response that you already understand this). Brutality does not excuse brutality.

That 9/11 happened does not take away my responsibility to oppose my government when it does things I believe are immoral.

Right. The problem is that you demonstrate no interest in any aspect of our battle with Al Qaeda other than to crticize us. Like I said, it's analagous to an American colonist during the Revolutionary War showing no interest at all in the struggle except when criticizing Washington's treatment of British troops. It's perverse.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

Osama bin Laden's manifesto states that he requires us to convert to Islam, like it or not. We certainly are in a life and death struggle.

Could you provide a source for this? It sounds like you are making this up.

Anytime nationalists want to support an extreme government, they greatly exaggerate an external threat. This has happened countless times in history.

Come on, do you really think that if we withdraw troops from Iraq, or don't keep prisoners in Guantanamo without a trial, our democracy will fail and we will all be forced to convert to Islam?

I think you are greatly exaggerating the threat.

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Interesting analogy re the Revolutionary War. I can't recall hearing that any of that happening (colonists protesting the treatment of British troops), nor can I see any parallels between the anti-colonial efforts of those Americans with what we're doing in Iraq now...

Or is it all lumped together under Whatever This Country Does Is Always Right?

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ebrown_p wrote:

[Come on, do you really think that if we don't keep prisoners in Guantanamo, our democracy will fail and we will all be forced to convert?

You are so right. Closing Gitmo will solve everything. I especially like that if we close it, we won't be criticized ever again.

So I vote for closing.

Let's relocate them all to, say.....the Hamptons?

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Keep warm: throw another koran on the fire

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