45
   

If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

 
 
brandonsays
 
  1  
Fri 23 May, 2014 07:02 pm
@SN95,
Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question, "why is it such an important belief?

Jesus stàted why in the gospel of John. He said "If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." In other words, his devine nature, and our trusting that he is who he claims to be and our acting on that belief in faith, is his work in us that saves us. There's a lot more to it than that as far as explanation, but that's probably the best place you can start in answering that question.

Why is it important that Jesus be who he claimed? Because believing that he's a mere man, a prophet, a good teacher, etc.. does not place him in the position to be able to die for our sins and it have any significance. The Lamb that takes away the sins of the world must be innocent. There is no one innocent but God Himself He is the only one who c;an die for us and have the cost of our sins paid for.

That's part of the issue, but it goes back much farther than that - long before there was any sin for us to be guilty of. In Genesis God says: " Let us make man in our image....@..."In the image of God made He him, male and female made He them."

It's clearly part of who God is to be more than one person long before there are any other persons to know. Why would that be significant? That's a question theologians have grappled with for millenia. It just seems to make sense that if God is the source of love - if God is love - and He is not in need of another, but creates purely out of His own pleasure to create; that love exists in Him. How could love exist without another? I therefore propose that God is essentially trinity because God is love. Love exists in God long before He created any other being capable of loving or of receiving love.
0 Replies
 
brandonsays
 
  1  
Fri 23 May, 2014 07:29 pm
@neologist,
The date that Jesus' resurrection corresponds to is to Jewish holy days centered around Passover. Jesus is the Passover lamb. He rose on the third day. Therefore, what Christians call "Easter" is really the celebration of the 3rd day resurrection, and it's significant, that in all of the holidays Christians celebrate, it is the most accurate as to date. The date changes from year to year due to the date's reliance on the ancient Jewish calendar. To equate Easter with Ashteroth worship is therefor ludicrous. Jesus told us to remember him. Christians who celebrate Easter are commemorating the most significant event in human history. If you discount that because your organization has a problem with it, it's Jesus' own command you have to contend with. I would prefer to obey Jesus than any human organization.
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 23 May, 2014 08:41 pm
@brandonsays,
brandonsays wrote:
. . . . To equate Easter with Ashteroth worship is therefor ludicrous.
"Easter" is the English translation of "Ashtoreth". Learn your etymology.
brandonsays wrote:
Jesus told us to remember him.
The event we are told to remember is his institution of the New Covenant.
brandonsays wrote:
Christians who celebrate Easter are commemorating the most significant event in human history. If you discount that because your organization has a problem with it, it's Jesus' own command you have to contend with. I would prefer to obey Jesus than any human organization.
The most significant event in human history to to date is Jesus' sacrifice. Without it, we would be toast.
brandonsays
 
  1  
Fri 23 May, 2014 09:09 pm
@neologist,
All the study's I've done regarding the etymology of the word Easter is inconclusive. The majority view is that it refers to "Dawn," Paschal - as the dawn of the day of resurrection. The only time I ever hear of it equated with Astaroth is with the Watchtower organiization.

Jesus is declared to be the Son of God by the resurrection. Christians commemorate both the crucifixion (on Good Friday) and the resurrection on Easter. But the resurrection is most significant; because plenty of people have been crucified, but only one person ever rose from the dead by his own accord. If Jesus has not been resurrected, we are told, our faith is in vain. We are simply attributing works of God to a mere man if Jesus did not rise from the dead. So celebrating Easter is a very legitimate Christian form of worship.

Anyway, I have no problem if you choose not to celebrate Easter. Not celebrating Easter has no bearing on whether one is a Christian or not. But please do not disparage my belief and equate it with paganism, when it has nothing to do with it.

Thanks.
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 23 May, 2014 10:15 pm
@brandonsays,
brandonsays wrote:
All the study's I've done regarding the etymology of the word Easter is inconclusive. The majority view is that it refers to "Dawn," Paschal - as the dawn of the day of resurrection. The only time I ever hear of it equated with Astaroth is with the Watchtower organiization. . .
Try Googling 'Ashtoreth'. You've missed in a large way.

BTW, Welcome to a2K. If you stick around as a believer, you will need thick skin.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 11:04 am
Quote:
Brandonsays said: Christians commemorate both the crucifixion (on Good Friday) and the resurrection on Easter. But the resurrection is most significant

Yes, therefore any cult which doesn't celebrate Easter is therefore under satanic influence..
McTag
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 11:17 am
@brandonsays,

Quote:
All the study's I've done regarding the etymology of the word Easter is inconclusive


Oh really?
It's from the same root as oestrogen, and it refers to eggs.
It's about fertility and birth.
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 12:30 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Yes, therefore any cult which doesn't celebrate Easter is therefore under satanic influence..
I never said we don't celebrate the resurrection, Einstein.
But we don't call it by the name of a pagan goddess of fertility to whom children were sacrificed.
And we don't include the pagan traditions of eggs and bunnies.
And we place considerably more importance on Jesus' sacrifice and the institution of the New Covenant.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 03:07 pm
@McTag,
Thanks for pointing that out, sir
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 04:48 pm
Quote:
Neologist said to Romeo: ..we don't include the pagan traditions of eggs and bunnies..

Kids and their parents everyewhere joyfully celebrate Jesus's resurrection with easter eggs, cards and bunnies, therefore they've overwritten and crushed any pagan links to Easter and don't take the "goddess" Ashteroth (or whatever her bloody name is) seriously; they've never heard of her anyway.
But because you JW's shun eggs, cards and bunnies, Ashteroth still has a hold on you because you seem to take her seriously..Wink

brandonsays
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 05:10 pm
@McTag,
Because a word derives from a pagan belief does not imply that it's reference to a direction (east) and further implying dawn as in paschal are also therefore pagan. I'm almost certain that I could find thousands of words in English usage that derive from pagan terms, which themselves have nothing whatsoever to do with pagan practices. Paganism, after all, was once practically universal. And this just illustrates the fanatical selection of certain elements (but not all) your organization engages in in order to falsely embellish their feigned piety. You'd think they could at least be consistent. Why not rather: "Let's separate ourselves from all references to paganism, by not uttering any English words, because they could all have pagan roots." The lapse in logic is astounding.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 05:13 pm
Maybe you folks are over thinking this. If Jesus is God he can call himself anything he wishes, even Shirley. Why over complicate this.
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 05:17 pm
@brandonsays,
I generally work out on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. But I do not worship those days.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 05:18 pm
@glitterbag,
Shirley you are not suggesting that.
giujohn
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 05:29 pm
Show me any where in the bible where jesus say he was god or even the son of god. He did refer to himself as the son of man numerous times. As far as him saying the father is in him, IF he was refering to god, doesnt the bible teach that god is in all of us?
glitterbag
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 05:31 pm
@neologist,
Shirley you're joking?
0 Replies
 
foundednotlost
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 06:35 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
Show me any where in the bible where jesus say he was god or even the son of god. He did refer to himself as the son of man numerous times. As far as him saying the father is in him, IF he was refering to god, doesnt the bible teach that god is in all of us?


John 14:9

King James Version of John 14:9.

Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

- King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

The Bible also say when you see me you see the father for my father and I are one. -–They are unified as one. In other words Jesus and his father are one in the same in thought as he represents his father here on earth.

brandonsays
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 06:50 pm
@giujohn,
In Exodus 3:14 Moses is talking to the Angel of the Lord, who is manifest in a burning bush. That Angel is clearly God Himself, as the context of that entire passage implies. Moses asks 'The Lord', whom shall I tell the Israelites who sent me? To which the angel says "You are to tell them I Am has sent you. That is my name...." the I AM is the 4 letters YHVH, or YHWH, from which we derive the name Jehovah, or Yahwey. In Hebrew it is just 4 consonants, and it is often referred to as the "Tetragrammaton."

In John chapter 8, Jesus is involved in a discussion with some Jewish leaders who have questioned his authority. This, and several preceding and following chapters are replete with "I am" statements by Jesus. "I am the light of the world...," "I am the bread of life...," etc. But most significant are 3 statements by Jesus, which offended the Jewish leaders enough to want to stone him to death (the punishment for blaspheme - which is to equate oneself with God. ) :

1) "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins. (John 8:23-24)

2) "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM, and I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me." (John 8:28)

3) (this one is most significant) If we take Jesus word here in context with the Angel of the Lord passages in Genesis and Exodus, and elsewhere in the OT, they are very illuminating. First Jesus makes the statement: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and he was glad." So Jesus is essentially saying that he had an encounter with Abraham; and when we read in Genesis, Chapter 18, Abraham is visited by two angels, one of which is called "The LORD."

So naturally the Jewish leaders challeng Jesus, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?" To which Jesus replied: "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM." (John 8:56-58)

So in claiming to be the same I AM that both Moses and Abraham encountered, Jesus was claiming to be God. He claimed eternality and equality with God. This is why in the next verse we read:

"Therefore they picked up stones to throw at him..." In their view he was guilty of blasphemy, equating himself with God. And for that he offered no apology or explanation. In fact he continued to make the same utterance once more:

"They answered him, 'Jesus the Nazarene.' He said to them, I AM. And Judas also who was betraying him, was standing with them. When therefore he said to them, 'I AM,' they drew back, and fell to the ground." (John 18:5-6)

The author of John wants to make it very clear that Jesus is God, by first making it clear that Jesus himself made that claim. But we also have the introdiction to the gospel in Chapter 1, which makes it rather explicit.

0 Replies
 
brandonsays
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 07:03 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
I don't believe that celebrating Easter is mandated in scripture. Only remembering Jesus through communion. However, the resurrection is the most significant event for Christians, since without it, our faith is in vain, as Paul stated.

I think one can still be a Christian abd never observe Easter. This is because Christian faith is not about religious ritual and the observance of holy days, but about trusting in Jesus.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 24 May, 2014 07:05 pm
@foundednotlost,
Welcome to a2k, found. I hope you stay awhile. The longevity of believers in this mostly unbelieving forum is quite truncated . . .
foundednotlost wrote:
King James Version of John 14:9.

Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"
Colossians 1:15 refers to Jesus as "the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature " So, if you see Jesus, it is the same as seeing God. BTW, the word creature would indicate he is not the creator.
foundednotlost wrote:
The Bible also say when you see me you see the father for my father and I are one. -–They are unified as one. In other words Jesus and his father are one in the same in thought as he represents his father here on earth.
Christ is also in union with the congregation. Does that mean the congregation is equal to God?
 

Related Topics

Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
Trinity - Discussion by Mrknowspeople
A Scriptural Discussion of the Trinity - Question by TruthMatters
Trinitarian Evidence All False - Discussion by Squeakybro
John 1-1 - Discussion by Squeakybro
Deity - Discussion by Squeakybro
Is This What God Purposed? - Question by BroRando
Who actually wrote the Bible? - Question by BroRando
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 06:55:49