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If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

 
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Thu 22 Jun, 2006 10:56 pm
Couldn't it be Jehovah (God) with three angels?

I am sorry I have not really gotten the gist of the full question?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Thu 22 Jun, 2006 11:15 pm
Quote:
If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?


...after a certain age, one tends to beget one's self.
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neologist
 
  1  
Thu 22 Jun, 2006 11:36 pm
Eorl wrote:
Quote:
If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?


...after a certain age, one tends to beget one's self.
And with dire consequences. :wink:
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glitterbag
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 12:02 am
I will say right up front that it's late, I need to sleep, but this is interesting? So, I will try to catch up tomorrow, but I may not have time until Sunday. The question may have already been asked, but are you only looking at Old Testament, New Testament and are you only checking the King James version which was not the first rendition?
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RexRed
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 12:57 am
glitterbag wrote:
I will say right up front that it's late, I need to sleep, but this is interesting? So, I will try to catch up tomorrow, but I may not have time until Sunday. The question may have already been asked, but are you only looking at Old Testament, New Testament and are you only checking the King James version which was not the first rendition?


When that is the case then "scope" can correct errors.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 07:12 am
2Sa 22:11
And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.

Comment:

Let alone angels what really is a cherub?
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neologist
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 07:13 am
glitterbag wrote:
I will say right up front that it's late, I need to sleep, but this is interesting? So, I will try to catch up tomorrow, but I may not have time until Sunday. The question may have already been asked, but are you only looking at Old Testament, New Testament and are you only checking the King James version which was not the first rendition?
Use whatever is necessary to establish the truth.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 07:23 am
Dictionary dot com has a good definition here.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 07:35 am
neologist wrote:
Dictionary dot com has a good definition here.


Very little is spoken about cherubs in the Bible where one can get a real definition of them...

Like "Lilith" is mentioned only once in the Bible and is translated "screeching owl"...

I am not certain but I believe much of the medieval definition of cherubs was formulated after the OT was written.

Cherubs "Biblically" remain a total blank.

This would indicate missing books or lost culture.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 07:42 am
Ge 3:24
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Fri 23 Jun, 2006 07:53 am
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/seraphim
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Sun 25 Jun, 2006 10:50 pm
neologist wrote:
The original Hebrew text did indeed use the term Jehovah many times in Ch. 18. The word Adonai inserted in verse 3 (and other places) was added by Jewish scribes in their superstitious avoidance of the divine name. However, the context makes it clear that the person speaking is an angel of Jehovah and not Jehovah himself.


The context makes it clear that it is Jehovah Himself by starting with the fact that Jehovah appeared , not just spoke out of the air or sent an emissary in His place :

Quote:
Gen 18:1 Afterward Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mam´re, while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent about the heat of the day.


There are three that approach Abraham's home.

and when Abraham meets Him, he addresses Him:

Quote:
Gen 18:3 Then he said: "Jehovah, if, now, I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant.


Would you say that to an angel?

Then, He answers Abraham (note it says Jehovah answers and refers to what Jehovah will do in the first person. This is no angel) :

Quote:


Then we see that two of the men left and went to Sodom, where we later read of these two rescuing Lot and his family. However , the third, Jehovah stands before Abraham and speaks:

Quote:
Gen 18:22 At this point the men turned from there and got on their way to Sod´om; but as for Jehovah, he was still standing before Abraham.


Then Jehovah leaves Abraham:

Quote:
Gen 18:33 Then Jehovah went his way when he had finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.


This is the context. (All Scripture quotations from http://watchtower.org/bible/index.htm )

There is NOTHING in the context to indicate that it is any other than Jehovah who appears in bodily form and talks to Abraham. It is stated quite plainly that it is He, and not an angel.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Mon 26 Jun, 2006 05:21 am
Okay, okay - now let me ask you oh-so-serious scholars this:

Why does it matter if it was God, his angel God and an angel, a trio of angels, or God and a trio of angels? How does it affect your belief or the message?
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neologist
 
  1  
Mon 26 Jun, 2006 11:36 am
Well, if Jehovah physically came to earth at any time, then Jesus could, in fact, be Jehovah.

I'm working on a response and have assembled information, but I hate to cut and paste, so you'll have to be patient. I'm sure real life can hardly wait. Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Mon 26 Jun, 2006 11:46 am
snood wrote:
Okay, okay - now let me ask you oh-so-serious scholars this:

Why does it matter if it was God, his angel God and an angel, a trio of angels, or God and a trio of angels? How does it affect your belief or the message?


The devil said to Eve, "ye shall be as gods"

The trinity is just another attempt of the adversary to usurp the veneration of the true God creator and redirect it back again toward creation.
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jul, 2006 05:13 pm
Re: If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten so
neologist wrote:
The word 'trinity' does not appear in the bible. Why is it such an important belief? Question


I selected these sentences for you..

...Since the fundamentals of, not true Christianity, but the present-day Christian religion and the fundamentals of Islam have parted on an important point, they go their separate ways in many respects like the above-mentioned differences. The important point is this:

Islam is the religion of the true affirmation of Divine Unity so that it dismisses intermediaries and causes. It breaks egotism and establishes sincere worship. It cuts every sort of false dominicality, starting from that of the soul, and rejects it. It is because of this that if a person of high position from among the upper class is going to be completely religious, he will have to give up his egotism. If he does not give up egotism, he will lose his strength of religion and to an extent give up his religion.

As for the Christian religion of the present day, since it has accepted the belief of Jesus (Upon whom be peace) being the Son of God, it ascribes a true effect to causes and intermediaries. It cannot break egotism in the name of religion. Rather, saying that it is a holy deputy of Jesus (Upon whom be peace), it attributes a sacredness to that egotism. For this reason, members of the Christian upper classes who occupy the highest worldly positions may be completely religious. In fact, there are many like the former American President, Wilson, and the former British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, who were as religious as bigoted priests. But those who rise to those positions among the Muslims rarely remain completely religious and firm in their religion, for they cannot give up their pride and egotism. And true taqwa cannot be combined with pride and egotism.... 29.letter/second sign/ BSN
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jul, 2006 05:36 pm
Re: If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten so
kevnmoon wrote:
neologist wrote:
The word 'trinity' does not appear in the bible. Why is it such an important belief? Question


I selected these sentences for you..

...Since the fundamentals of, not true Christianity, but the present-day Christian religion and the fundamentals of Islam have parted on an important point, they go their separate ways in many respects like the above-mentioned differences. The important point is this:

Islam is the religion of the true affirmation of Divine Unity so that it dismisses intermediaries and causes. It breaks egotism and establishes sincere worship. It cuts every sort of false dominicality, starting from that of the soul, and rejects it. It is because of this that if a person of high position from among the upper class is going to be completely religious, he will have to give up his egotism. If he does not give up egotism, he will lose his strength of religion and to an extent give up his religion.

As for the Christian religion of the present day, since it has accepted the belief of Jesus (Upon whom be peace) being the Son of God, it ascribes a true effect to causes and intermediaries. It cannot break egotism in the name of religion. Rather, saying that it is a holy deputy of Jesus (Upon whom be peace), it attributes a sacredness to that egotism. For this reason, members of the Christian upper classes who occupy the highest worldly positions may be completely religious. In fact, there are many like the former American President, Wilson, and the former British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, who were as religious as bigoted priests. But those who rise to those positions among the Muslims rarely remain completely religious and firm in their religion, for they cannot give up their pride and egotism. And true taqwa cannot be combined with pride and egotism.... 29.letter/second sign/ BSN


Kevn, do you mind me asking if you wrote these sentences?
0 Replies
 
kevnmoon
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jul, 2006 05:40 pm
No.. I can't write them.. copy and paste.. also I gave reference..
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kevnmoon
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jul, 2006 05:42 pm
BSN : (Bediuzzaman Said Nursi) .. He has got 130 pieces of books.. I select and send them..
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jul, 2006 08:08 pm
Kev, not all who identify themselves as Christians believe in the trinity. So Islam has no special merit in being monotheistic.
0 Replies
 
 

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