How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

Nancy Pelosi is awesome in this role. She was made for this (I watched her press conference with her Senate sidekick).

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Trump is caving! And, he is making it sound like a victory. He is not getting any commitment money for his wall. They are starting a "commission" and opening the government for 3 weeks.

I still think the Nation Emergency is coming. Expect a Right Wing temper tantrum in three... two ....

Interesting that the 3 weeks reopening mirrors the 3 year extension proposal for DACA.

The wall is getting built without funding, supposedly. Not sure how that is possible without war bond financing or something like that.

Maybe they could just fund it by confiscating traffickers' drugs and selling it back to them to try again.

Seriously, though, what if they legalized the drugs and prostitution being trafficked, then taxed it to fund the wall? Then, once the wall was up, they could experiment with re-criminalizing the drugs and prostitution being trafficked and see if it stops.

That would basically provide support for the abuse, though, wouldn't it?

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@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan wrote:

BREAKING NEWS:
Trump Likely to Announce Deal to End Government Shutdown for Three Weeks

Thanks for the update.

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@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan wrote:

ANOTHER MISTAKE in Trump's shitty speech:
Israel's defensive barriers also DON'T work. They fail at preventing rocket attacks and keeping out the occasional car bomber.

That is incorrect. The Security Fence may not prevent rockets (other defenses do that), but it has completely eliminated the problem of Palestinians sneaking into Israel to kill children.

I would guess that it does pretty good at keeping out car bombers too, although perhaps not with 100% success.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

He is basically stalling... but anyone who understands the game knows that he is giving up his leverage. This is stupid.

This is an admission that leftist calls to "reopen the government and then negotiate" are disingenuous.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
He is basically stalling... but anyone who understands the game knows that he is giving up his leverage. This is stupid.
This is an admission that leftist calls to "reopen the government and then negotiate" are disingenuous.

I don't think you understand the game. Trump lost. He wanted a wall. He never had a chance at his wall.

The "reopen the government and then negotiate" means that they will go through the normal Congressional process which will include money for border security. There will be no wall.

The message from the "left" has always been "there will be no wall". That isn't want Trump wants to hear, but it is not disingenuous. When the cops surrounding a building say "we have you surrounded, free the hostages, and then we will talk about your demands"... that doesn't mean that they are actually going to give the hostage takers a get away car.

Trump never had a chance of winning. What happened is that got to the point where the Republicans started threatening him... once he risked losing support from the Republican Senate, he had no choice but to cave. It was either give in or risk even greater humiliation.

His only way out is a National Emergency which will fail. Then Trump will have someone to blame it on.

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@maxdancona,

Ann Coulter wrote:

Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States.

Conservatives wanted Trump to bring the country down in flames. Smart Conservatives know that what happened to day was that Trump gave in.

But he never had a chance of getting his wall.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The message from the "left" has always been "there will be no wall". That isn't want Trump wants to hear, but it is not disingenuous.

That isn't what I say is disingenuous.

What I say is disingenuous are the leftist calls for Trump to give up all of his leverage and then "negotiate" when he has no leverage, when the Democrats have no intention of ever giving him what he wants.

maxdancona wrote:

When the cops surrounding a building say "we have you surrounded, free the hostages, and then we will talk about your demands"... that doesn't mean that they are actually going to give the hostage takers a get away car.

Which makes the "offer to talk" disingenuous.

maxdancona wrote:

His only way out is a National Emergency which will fail. Then Trump will have someone to blame it on.

I don't know whether it will or won't fail.

I don't think you know whether it will or won't fail either.

At the least, you haven't presented an argument that I find compelling as to why it will fail.

What has definitely failed, however, is the latest opportunity for the Democrats to get a permanent DACA fix. And that's a shame.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

What I say is disingenuous are the leftist calls for Trump to give up all of his leverage and then "negotiate" when he has no leverage, when the Democrats have no intention of ever giving him what he wants.

The job of Trump, in this case, is to make the pot so sweet that the Democrats can't say no. Or to find some other leverage.

If I want to really buy a house, but the seller won't sell, I keep raising my price until they say yes....or I give up. That's how negotiations work.

The Democrats are willing to negotiate. That's not disingenuous. It doesn't mean that they'll give Trump what he want's, but it means they'll listen to all offers. They're not required to agree.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

What has definitely failed, however, is the latest opportunity for the Democrats to get a permanent DACA fix. And that's a shame.

Too bad Trump doesn't just fix what he broke.

Republican could fix the DACA situation if they want. Unless you think only the Democrats are able to give a damn about these kids and the rest of the Republicans get a pass for not giving a ****.

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Unless you think only the Democrats are able to give a damn about these kids and the rest of the Republicans get a pass for not giving a ****.

Actually I think that's a fair assessment. The Democrats are the ones who want DACA.

Trump Republicans either oppose it or do not care.

There once were some moderate Republicans who wanted a DACA fix. But between Obama and Trump, they never stood a chance.

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@maporsche,

Quote:

Unless you think only the Democrats are able to give a damn about these kids and the rest of the Republicans get a pass for not giving a ****.

We already know they do not care about dead Americans, they might as well care for someone.

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

The Democrats are willing to negotiate.

This might be true. But I am not sure that it is.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

And that National Emergency declaration is sure to be criticized, attacked, and litigated.

apparently the paperwork to take it to court is already in place

he caved on the wall, and he isn't likely to get a national emergency that will go into play. too many states and cities and individuals are ready to get it in front of judges. and there certainly seem to be judges who work unusual hours in the US

Nancy Nancy Nancy

1 Reply

Quote:

Merriam-Webster
‏
@MerriamWebster

We're seeing a 1500% spike on 'cave' this evening.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

he isn't likely to get a national emergency that will go into play. too many states and cities and individuals are ready to get it in front of judges. and there certainly seem to be judges who work unusual hours in the US

"People being ready to get it in front of judges" won't prevent the Supreme Court from siding with Trump.

Not that the Supreme Court is guaranteed to side with Trump. But they might. Remember, the Supreme Court ultimately said that Trump's immigration restrictions were all right.

Much will depend on whether there is a decent legal reason to oppose the wall.

If the only reason that people give for opposing the wall is "I don't like Trump" then I don't see the Supreme Court buying that argument.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Much will depend on whether there is a decent legal reason to oppose the wall.

No.

Much will depend on if the current state of things on the border is drastically different than the past 10-20 years in order to necessitate calling it "an emergency."

I'm betting that court will say there isn't evidence to support that. To make his case worse, it wasn't even an emergency for Trump for the first 2 YEARS of his presidency, it's not one now ("coincidentally" a few weeks after Democrats took the house). The judges are a lot of things, but idiots they are not.

ETA: this isn't a case of the congress passing a law to build a wall...this is a case of Trump doing an end around an entire equal branch of government. Don't think the judges will like that. Their legal opinions won't even consider the policy of the wall, just the method used to back-door fund it.

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@maporsche,

Yup. No sudden emergency after all this time. Not even the Republicans believe it.

When Ann Coulter and Lou Dobbs turn on you ... not a good sign.

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@oralloy,

It's not that the Supreme Court will or will not buy into a wall. It's whether or not it will allow a President to bypass an co-equal branch of government for allocated spending. There's no precedence so case law is ineffective. So they must rely on what the Constitution has offered as a checks and balances system. In which case, I think they'd have to not allow the case to go forward.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

I don't see the Supreme Court buying that argument.

Given your experience with the court(or so I have heard) I agree.

1 Reply

How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

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