27
   

How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  5  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 10:55 am
@maxdancona,
Shouldn't you be concerned about this National Emergency thing? Trump's wet dream is to be dictator...
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 11:05 am
@Olivier5,
Yes and no. It will be challenged in court, and it will cause even grater divisions in the Republican party. Trump is not acting out of strength, and with each misstep his actual power diminishes.

He is alienating everyone outside of his core group of supporters.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 11:07 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Shouldn't you be concerned about this National Emergency thing

Do you know how many emergencies Obama declared? Do you know anything about the process? I hope Trump does it, because he can.
Quote:
The U.S. is currently under 32 active states of national emergencies, per the Brennan Center for Justice. Many of the emergencies were declared by presidents as far back as Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/08/trump-national-emergency-not-unprecedented-obama/
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 11:50 am
@maxdancona,
Once I think I was as optimistic as you concerning the highest court and those directly below it. What makes you think the court which so far has been handpicked by the Koch brothers is going to apply the law and the constitution against Trump and say his power grab is unconstitutional?
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 12:09 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
What makes you think the court which so far has been handpicked by the Koch brothers

Prove it. That is like me saying Soros and Obama teamed up to destroy this county. Most likely they did, but I cannot prove it.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 12:30 pm
@revelette1,
You seem to be afraid of a far flung conservative conspiracy to dismantle democracy. Your fears arent founded (and of they were it would be too late anyway and the secret police arw already on their way to your house).

Conservatives on the court have been consistent in reining in executive power, including with Trump.


coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 12:33 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Trump's wet dream is to be dictator...

Like Macron? His dream is coming true.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 09:18 pm
@maxdancona,
Like when the liberal high court elected Bush president? She is right, you are wrong.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 09:21 pm
@RABEL222,
This partisan silliness can go to the other thread. I will note that you think the Roberts court will uphold Trump's national emergency. I am on the record saying that this prediction is ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 09:22 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I thought you didn't believe in the effectiveness of any governments. So what's the shutdown to you?

Well, I wonder what will happen. Will the Democrats start making counteroffers to address Trump's national security concerns, and if so what will their priorities be? Will they come up with cheaper yet more effective ways to stop trafficking, which Trump can give serious consideration to, which would also reduce the need for an expensive wall?

Or will they just continue to push for full domination of the executive branch by ignoring and dismissing Trump's views altogether and trying to corner and otherwise manipulate him into submission to their paradigm?

I wonder if they'll even acknowledge trafficking, drugs, and crime at all or whether they'll just keep denying there are any problems and accusing Trump of making it all up to scare the people into supporting the wall.

It's interesting that there is denialism on the part of Democrats to crime and drugs, similar to the climate denialism of many GOP supporters. It is even more interesting when you look at Macron's relationship with the new anti-climate-action movement, that is also a budding form of denialism, which is probably also in line with crime and drug denial of the US Democrats. If the denialists of both issues succeed, the world will end up with an interesting combination of liberal attitudes toward both drugs and climate-altering industrial-consumerism. That would be a terribly unsustainable popular culture, though, so I don't know what it would evolve into and how long such an evolutionary process would take.
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Fri 11 Jan, 2019 10:31 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Well, I wonder what will happen. Will the Democrats start making counteroffers to address Trump's national security concerns, and if so what will their priorities be? Will they come up with cheaper yet more effective ways to stop trafficking, which Trump can give serious consideration to, which would also reduce the need for an expensive wall?

Or will they just continue to push for full domination of the executive branch by ignoring and dismissing Trump's views altogether and trying to corner and otherwise manipulate him into submission to their paradigm?

I wonder if they'll even acknowledge trafficking, drugs, and crime at all or whether they'll just keep denying there are any problems and accusing Trump of making it all up to scare the people into supporting the wall.

It's interesting that there is denialism on the part of Democrats to crime and drugs, similar to the climate denialism of many GOP supporters. It is even more interesting when you look at Macron's relationship with the new anti-climate-action movement, that is also a budding form of denialism, which is probably also in line with crime and drug denial of the US Democrats. If the denialists of both issues succeed, the world will end up with an interesting combination of liberal attitudes toward both drugs and climate-altering industrial-consumerism. That would be a terribly unsustainable popular culture, though, so I don't know what it would evolve into and how long such an evolutionary process would take.


Trump did what he always does and changed his mind.

https://able2know.org/topic/492193-1
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  5  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2019 05:20 am
@livinglava,
There’s plenty of homegrown crime in the US. So much so that Canada is considering its own wall along their border, to be paid for by the US.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2019 09:33 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

There’s plenty of homegrown crime in the US. So much so that Canada is considering its own wall along their border, to be paid for by the US.

All the NAFTA partners, including the US, Mexico, and Canada should work together to stop drug- and human- trafficking. Drugs and slaves are sent wherever there is money to exchange for them.

If people have no respect for human life, they can abuse young poor girls and ignore their right to education and so forth in order to groom them into prostitution and then traffic them to places where there is big money available to pimp them out.

Gangs can bully women and men of all ages to swallow balloons filled with drugs and then take them wherever there is demand for the drugs. The catch-and-release policy for adults-with-children must have been extremely convenient for traffickers, knowing they would not be held in custody until the drug balloons are passed.

I can't understand why people think there is gang violence to push people into migration except because of lucrative markets for drugs, etc. Do they think everyone who migrates is a totally independent individual from an independent family, neither of which are under any social pressure to send money back to bullies in localities where their families live?

How do you stop such bullying and gang violence to force family-separation and migration except by making migration and trafficking more difficult? It would be great if there was some easy way to establish who is telling the truth and who is lying when they say they are not migrating under duress or threat of any kind, but obviously people are are under duress/threat are going to lie and say they're making a free choice; so what do you do about that?
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:54 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
There’s plenty of homegrown crime in the US.

Most likely in France too, but they like to import as much as they can. We don't want to do that.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jan, 2019 08:40 pm
The prediction markets are suggesting there is a 67% chance that the shutdown will last until at least next Friday. I should buy in.... but if it ends on Friday my prediction is still correct.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  4  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 06:38 am
Trump says he didn't say

Mexico would write US a check for border wall.

But he did.


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/jan/10/donald-trump/trump-claims-he-never-meant-mexico-would-write-che/
farmerman
 
  6  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 06:44 am
@Real Music,
Ya know, this guy is such a pathological liar that the GOP has become numbly approving of it. Does approving of uch untruth make them accomplices??? Im gonna have to say yes. If they dont impose some control on this guy weve become what we used to call a "Banana Republic" .
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 03:58 pm
@farmerman,
Banana Republic? We sell agricultural produce and raw materials and import machinery and technological devices. What else you want to know?
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 05:10 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
If they dont impose some control on this guy weve become what we used to call a "Banana Republic" .

"They" are not in the Oval office. You people have forgotten how this country works and are not very fond of the very democracy that put him in office. Then have the nerve to say you are trying to save it.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jan, 2019 08:30 pm
@Olivier5,
If you try to make me pay for your wall ill move to Canada. So there!
0 Replies
 
 

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