1
   

Jeb Bush for prez "08"

 
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 08:10 pm
parados wrote:
Quote:
You are confusing a time when Jeus was alive (and talking to the Hebrews specifically) with Romans written after Jesus' death (addressed to the world)... as you recall this was right about the time when the Roman empire fell to the Christians?
Rex, I really have to question your biblical scholarship, let alone your history.

Rome was hardly Christian at the time of Paul. Paul probably died in 64 at the hands of Nero. Constantine didn't make Christianity the religion of Rome until 313.


You are good to catch that. We need to maybe take this up in another thread because this is a politics thread.

Rome took 300 years to realize what Paul was saying in the first century. What Paul was saying did not contradict Jesus it just fell under a different dispensation. The church of the Gospels is a different church than the church of the Epistles.

Jesus fulfilled the the law thus the law could "pass away"...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 10:54 am
Shame on Michael Schiavo...
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 11:01 am
RexRed wrote:
Shame on Michael Schiavo...


and the opportunistic politicians, lawyers, religious figures, rubberneckers. there's pleanty to go around.

How about Peace and Grace to all involved and rest and relief to Terri.

Even the ancient warriors gave both sides time to honor and bury their dead.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 01:04 pm
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Shame on Michael Schiavo...


and the opportunistic politicians, lawyers, religious figures, rubberneckers. there's pleanty to go around.

How about Peace and Grace to all involved and rest and relief to Terri.

Even the ancient warriors gave both sides time to honor and bury their dead.


Here is an alternative to a "living will"...

"Will to live"

http://nrlc.org/
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 02:33 pm
Shame on everyone else
RexRed wrote:
Shame on Michael Schiavo...


There is a lot of shame to go around here, but I don't think Mr. Schiavo deserves it. He spent eight years trying to help his wife recover. When overwhelming medical evidence suggested this was not possible, he spent the next seven trying to ensure her wishes were met. When offered $10 million to walk away, he refused to turn away. While the media churned and self promoters went in front of the cameras with ludicrous claims about her condition, he maintained his privacy and that of his wife. Everyone wants to pray with the parents; who wants to pray with him? He is the one who lost a wife today. I can understand the parents deluding themselves into believing the Ms. Schiavo could someday recover even though most of her brain has died; I can't understand the rest of us doing so. And I certainly cannot understand criticism of her husband who stood by her until the end.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 04:37 pm
Re: Shame on everyone else
engineer wrote:
And I certainly cannot understand criticism of her husband who stood by her until the end.


Are you kidding?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 08:37 pm
Re: Shame on everyone else
Ticomaya wrote:
engineer wrote:
And I certainly cannot understand criticism of her husband who stood by her until the end.


Are you kidding?


No. Terri told numerous people on separate occasions that she would not want her body maintained like that. Her husband turned down $10 million to ensure her wishes were met. While acknowledging her condition, he never left, and it would have been so easy to do so. As I said, you can't blame the parents for their self deception. They saw what they wanted. Her husband acknowledged the truth and stayed anyway. In my eyes, he's the tragic hero and those trying to score points on the issue are the villians.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Mar, 2005 11:15 pm
Re: Shame on everyone else
engineer wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Shame on Michael Schiavo...


There is a lot of shame to go around here, but I don't think Mr. Schiavo deserves it. He spent eight years trying to help his wife recover. When overwhelming medical evidence suggested this was not possible, he spent the next seven trying to ensure her wishes were met. When offered $10 million to walk away, he refused to turn away. While the media churned and self promoters went in front of the cameras with ludicrous claims about her condition, he maintained his privacy and that of his wife. Everyone wants to pray with the parents; who wants to pray with him? He is the one who lost a wife today. I can understand the parents deluding themselves into believing the Ms. Schiavo could someday recover even though most of her brain has died; I can't understand the rest of us doing so. And I certainly cannot understand criticism of her husband who stood by her until the end.


Stood by her to the end? He brought the end upon her... that is not standing by someone but snuffing them out... he would have served Terry best to let her parents care for her.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 07:30 am
Not what she wanted
Quote:
Stood by her to the end? He brought the end upon her... that is not standing by someone but snuffing them out... he would have served Terry best to let her parents care for her.


That is not what she wanted. She stated that on different occasions to numerous people. Do you really think she would want her parents lovingly clinging to a body with no capability for higher level thought? No hope of even the slightest recovery? He didn't bring her end upon her, that happened fifteen years ago. It's time for everyone to acknowledge that and go on to live their lives. I would not want my family to suspend their lives for fifteen years to fight over my living corpse. Everyone vilifies Terri's husband for making the final, tough call, but he has enabled life to go on for those truly living.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 08:46 am
Quote:
Stood by her to the end? He brought the end upon her... that is not standing by someone but snuffing them out... he would have served Terry best to let her parents care for her.


Terri was 'snuffed out' 15 years ago. Her parents have mental imbalances. It would not have been best to leave her body with them, but to give it a proper burial.

I agree with Engineer that we cannot move on until we let go of the dead...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 10:20 am
What dead? The brain dead judges? Today congress announced they are going to impeach these judges... I am sure they will follow the letter of the law when they do it...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 10:52 am
Re: Shame on everyone else
engineer wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
engineer wrote:
And I certainly cannot understand criticism of her husband who stood by her until the end.


Are you kidding?


No. Terri told numerous people on separate occasions that she would not want her body maintained like that. Her husband turned down $10 million to ensure her wishes were met. While acknowledging her condition, he never left, and it would have been so easy to do so. As I said, you can't blame the parents for their self deception. They saw what they wanted. Her husband acknowledged the truth and stayed anyway. In my eyes, he's the tragic hero and those trying to score points on the issue are the villians.


If "numerous people" means Michael and his siblings ...... She also told "numerous people" on separate occasions that she would not want to be taken off life support.

Michael "stood by her until the end"? I suppose that's why he shacked up with the new love of his life, sired a few puppies with her, subbornly refusing to divorce Terri, all the while withholding therapy from her like HIS life depended on it, and frequently asking, "Is the bitch dead yet?"

At least that's what I've heard .....

Quote:
AFFIDAVIT

STATE OF FLORIDA

COUNTY OF PINELLAS

BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:

1. My name is Carla Sauer Iyer. I am over the age of eighteen and make this statement of my own personal knowledge.

2. I am a registered nurse in the State of Florida, having been licensed continuously in Florida from 1997 to the present. Prior to that I was a Licensed Practical Nurse for about four years.

3. I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Florida from April of 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there.

4. It was clear to me at Palm Gardens that all decisions regarding Terri Schiavo were made by Michael Schiavo, with no allowance made for any discussion, debate or normal professional judgment. My initial training there consisted solely of the instruction "Do what Michael Schiavo tells you or you will be terminated." This struck me as extremely odd.

5. I was very disturbed by the decision making protocol, as no allowance whatsoever was made for professional responsibility. The atmosphere throughout the facility was dominated by Mr. Schiavo's intimidation. Everyone there, with the exception of several people who seemed to be close to Michael, was intimidated by him. Michael Schiavo always had an overbearing attitude, yelling numerous times such things as "This is my order and you're going to follow it." He is very large and uses menacing body language, such as standing too close to you, getting right in your face and practically shouting.

6. To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens while I was there. I became concerned because nothing was being done for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy, no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri's hand to keep her fingers from curling together, and Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy.

7. Terri's medical condition was systematically distorted and misrepresented. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as "mommy," and "help me." "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like "pay." She didn't say the "n" sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper.

8. When I came into her room and said "Hi, Terri", she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying "Haaaiiiii" sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a "hi", which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humorous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri's, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri's rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri's responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that.

9. Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death. Michael would say "When is she going to die?," "Has she died yet?" and "When is that bitch gonna die?" These statements were common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include "Can't you do anything to accelerate her death - won't she ever die?" When she wouldn't die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. He made numerous statements such as "Make sure the parents aren't contacted." I recorded Michael's statements word for word in Terri's chart, but these entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders were that the family wasn't to be contacted, in fact, there was a large sign in the front of her chart that said under no circumstances was her family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them, anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.

10. Any time Terri would be sick, like with a UTI or fluid buildup in her lungs, colds, pneumonia, Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die. He would call me, as I was the nurse supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking if she was dead yet. He would blurt out "I'm going to be rich!," and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.

11. When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would would be trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I'd check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I would put dextrose in Terri's mouth to counteract it. This happened about five times on my shift as I recall. Normally Terri's blood sugar levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube feeding. It is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is very fast acting.

12. The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the reasons I've said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named Carolyn Adams, known as "Andy" Adams who was a particular concern. An unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was completely unconcerned, making statements such as "They are old - let them die." I couldn't believe her attitude or the fact that it didn't seem to attract any attention. She made many comments about Terri being a waste of money, that she should die. She said it was costing Michael a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time, too.) Both Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was convinced it was because of my "rocking the boat."

13. Ms. Adams was one of the people who did not seem to be intimidated by Michael. In fact, they seemed to be very close, and Adams would do whatever Michael told her. Michael sometimes called Adams at night and spoke at length. I was not able to hear the content of these phone calls, but I knew it was him talking to her because she would tell me afterward and relay orders from him.

14. While at Palm Gardens, I became fearful for my personal safety. This was due to Michael's constant intimidation, including his menacing body language, vocal tone and mannerisms.

15. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn't stand by and let Terri die without the truth being known.

FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.

CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1255691#1255691

Also ... http://www.terrisfight.org/index2.html (look at documents page; affidavits on right side).
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 11:09 am
Today congress announced they are going to impeach these judges.

Link, or are you making this up?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 11:23 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Today congress announced they are going to impeach these judges.

Link, or are you making this up?

Cycloptichorn


Fox news today...

look it up

It was A US senator talking..

search in their data base maybe impeach and judges they will link you to it.

http://foxnews.com

If not I will look it up later and post it
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 11:42 am
Oh, I'll wait.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 12:59 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Oh, I'll wait.

Cycloptichorn


I think he means this ...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152095,00.html
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 02:01 pm
That's pretty vague on the old details isn't it Rex?Could mean any number of things. I think you're reading what you want to read.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 02:30 pm
Fired RN or State Appointed Doctor
Yes, I've seen the testimony of CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N. who also admitted she was fired. I've also heard an interview with the court appointed doctor who spent many hours with Terri and examined her over an extended period of time. He stated flat out that sometimes she seemed to respond to his questions, but when he tried to duplicate the response, it wasn't there. Through test after test, it wasn't there. That doesn't even include that CAT scan image on another post where there is very little brain left.

Ms. Sauer's testimony was not found to be reliable in numerous court battles and it is so over the top that I do not find it reliable now. The magnitude of the coverup by people with no vested interest in the case is just too incredible. Where are all the other nurses who heard these vicious comments? Where are the police investigation documents? Why on earth would a nursing home support such radical behavior? Where's their angle? What's their payoff? I don't see it.

I do understand that if you choose to believe this over the comments of the doctors, that you would not think well of Terri's husband, but he turned down $10 million to walk away, so I guess she was worth more alive than dead and he still honored her wishes.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 04:06 pm
Re: Fired RN or State Appointed Doctor
engineer wrote:
Yes, I've seen the testimony of CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N. who also admitted she was fired. I've also heard an interview with the court appointed doctor who spent many hours with Terri and examined her over an extended period of time. He stated flat out that sometimes she seemed to respond to his questions, but when he tried to duplicate the response, it wasn't there. Through test after test, it wasn't there. That doesn't even include that CAT scan image on another post where there is very little brain left.

Ms. Sauer's testimony was not found to be reliable in numerous court battles and it is so over the top that I do not find it reliable now. The magnitude of the coverup by people with no vested interest in the case is just too incredible. Where are all the other nurses who heard these vicious comments? Where are the police investigation documents? Why on earth would a nursing home support such radical behavior? Where's their angle? What's their payoff? I don't see it.

I do understand that if you choose to believe this over the comments of the doctors, that you would not think well of Terri's husband, but he turned down $10 million to walk away, so I guess she was worth more alive than dead and he still honored her wishes.


Maybe it was Michael that was over the top?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 06:31 pm
Re: Over the top
Quote:
Maybe it was Michael that was over the top?


Maybe, but I think there would be 20 nurses testifying to that if it were the case. Amazing how this one nurse heard this but not all the rest.
0 Replies
 
 

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