Threatened with divorce once again- am I crazy?

I agree with Bella Dea about the 30 minute unwind time.

Just remember that what is important to your wife is not you winning $600 by finishing your game. It's your spending time with her and listening to her, and caring for her needs. If that's not high on your list of priorities, so be it. Bear in mind what I've been advocating is for you to do some introspection, and decide what is important to you. If your "me" time is more important to you than time spent with your wife, that might help guide you. At the same time, I think you and she do need to set boundaries, and you need the unwind time, and she needs to respect that. I think you'll get the give and take after you demonstrate your willingness to give. I don't think she's seeing that right now.

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Ok, but you ignore that the reason I am being stubborn this time is that I have given in unconditionally in the past, only to have the same situation arise again. I think I have demonstrated time and time again that I am willing to choose her, incondionally over....

1) x box- gave it up
2) water polo- gave it up and started playing again when she doesn't complain about it
3) working out, stopped going all together, unconditionally, untill she came around and told me she was being unreasonable and I should go " a few times a week"

See the pattern? How many times do I have to prove to her that she is "queen." How much of my life is going to be left if I do that for 50 years? She should know by now I'm willing to give things up to be with her and she should stop asking and let me enjoy myself every now and then.

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mit2727 wrote:

How much of my life is going to be left if I do that for 50 years? She should know by now I'm willing to give things up to be with her and she should stop asking and let me enjoy myself every now and then.

None...you will have nothing left after 50 years.

She should know that you are willing to give up everything for her. And with that knowledge, be content. Not actually ask you to give up everything. There are certain circumstances in which I agree that a partner should give something up for the other person. I don't agree that this is one of them.

Making you happy should be high on her list of priorities. It seems that she is all about making herself happy.

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And yes, you're right. When I have shown that I am willing to give something up completly and on her terms, she usually comes around and "lets" me engage in that activity to some extent. But HOW can you possibly live your life like this... You grant your wife the express authority to decide when and how much you engage in any activity you enjoy and have to ask permission to go work out, play poker, etc.. That's not a wife, that's a mother. Its immasculating and I can't deal with it. Instead, I offer to curtail it to some agreed upon number. But she doesn't want that, she wants complete control of the situation, "I should trust her not to be unreasonable". See how that is a control issue?

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But Tico, he does spend time with her. He's not engaged
in his poker game non stop. Coming home at 7 pm is quite
normal for lots of couples, as is unwinding after a hard days
work.

I even tell my child sometimes to leave me alone for 30 min.
before I attend to her needs. That doesn't mean I'll neglect her,I just need time to recuperate.

Obviously, his marriage is very important to mit2727
otherwise he wouldn't ask for advice, yet he shouldn't give
up himself in order to make it work resp. please his
wife.

If his needs are not met, than he probably won't be susceptable to hers either. Marriage is a very delicate
balance act, and granted, sometimes one side carries
more weight than the other, it shouldn't be all the time.

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mit2727 wrote:

You grant your wife the express authority to decide when and how much you engage in any activity you enjoy and have to ask permission to go work out, play poker, etc.. That's not a wife, that's a mother. Its immasculating and I can't deal with it.

Then don't. That's the point we are all trying to make. If you don't want to deal with it than you have to find a solution. Your wife is not going to be the one to initiate the change.

Your relationship sounds more like a control issue than anything. What you need to find out, if you want to continue this marriage, is WHY she needs this control. Does she trust you? Does she feel insecure with the realtionship or herself? That is why getting a marriage counselor is SO IMPORTANT.

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I would love to hear the wifes side of the story.

I went back and re-read mit's first post. I am with Debra on this. Reason being -- the main focus of your post was how your wife doesn't want you playing poker. For two years this has been a huge problem in your marriage. I think if compromises were made in the beginning, the problem would not be so magnified today. You admitted in your first post that after that one big fight, you left the house and went to the office and played poker. Then tried to come back home. And you wonder why she was so pissed off she didn't want you coming home that night???? Rolling Eyes

I think you both need counseling. I disagree with your wife's stubborness on this. Destroying clothes is not a healthy way to manage anger. It seems that she is just at the end of her rope and refusing to listen to anything you say anymore.

I feel like "the other side of the story" would be enlightening. :wink:

Anyways.......... you BOTH need to make compromises. You say you are willing to do that. Well, ya know what?? I think she has just grown so tired of coming in "last place" in your life that she has no room for compromise. If you BOTH chose not to - - you might just as well end it now as to end it later. And when and if that happens, I don't think either one of you should be pointing fingers at each other, for you are BOTH to blame.

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mit2727 wrote:

Ok, but you ignore that the reason I am being stubborn this time is that I have given in unconditionally in the past, only to have the same situation arise again. I think I have demonstrated time and time again that I am willing to choose her, incondionally over....

1) x box- gave it up
2) water polo- gave it up and started playing again when she doesn't complain about it
3) working out, stopped going all together, unconditionally, untill she came around and told me she was being unreasonable and I should go " a few times a week"

See the pattern? How many times do I have to prove to her that she is "queen." How much of my life is going to be left if I do that for 50 years? She should know by now I'm willing to give things up to be with her and she should stop asking and let me enjoy myself every now and then.

So it's always something, then, isn't it? You give up xbox and take up water polo? Give that up and start working out? Cut back on that and start to play poker? You are managing to find a lot of ways to avoid spending time with your wife. Maybe it's different if you don't have kids, but my husband and I have enough room for about 1 hobby/special interest each that is outside of family and work. We just don't have time to do more without neglecting our reponsibilities. By those I mean cleaning house, laundry, bathing and feeding the kids, keeping the cars and house in good condition, shoveling the snow off the sidewalk, cutting the grass, watering the plants, doing the dishes, and remembering who that other person is that shares a house with us. When do you two have time to take care of these things?

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Yes, I did go and play poker, on purpose.

On many occations, my wife has tried to excersice physical control over me when we are fighting. If I need to take a drive and cool off, she takes my car keys and dares me to take them back. If I try to take a walk, she tells me when I get back I'm going to be locked out and my stuff is going to be on the lawn. If I lock myself in a room, she tells she will burn my clothes if I don't open the door.

When she told me to stop playing poker, I told her we should compromise. She said that if she wanted it stopped, it would be stopped, and grabbed the computer from my hands and cahnged the passwords on it. I went and played at my office in an attempt to show her that we can't excersise physical control over each other, we have to AGREE to do things for one and other. It was the only way I could think to make my point.

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Free, we hire people and don't have any kids. It is usually only one hobby at a time. I realize that when children come into the picture even that may have to go by the wayside.

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Is that part of this at all, do you think? That she wants to have kids but is worried that you won't be able to invest the time?

At any rate, my take on this so far is:

1.) The marriage has problems.

2.) Neither party is perfect, neither party is evil incarnate -- going by the information here, the "real" story could edge either party closer to one or the other extreme. Perhaps mit has been living with an irrational harpy, has been patient, and finally reached the end of his rope. Perhaps mit is selfish and unfeeling and has been ignoring his wife's needs, leading her to fits of frustration and destroying of clothes. However, does it matter? Because

3.) Given that both parties recognize #1, mit's wife won't go to counseling. He has taken conditions off of it (as I understand it -- and recommend that he does ASAP if he hasn't), he just wants to go to counseling one way or another. If it takes giving up poker, fine. But she won't.

That's where this ends for me. If she is acting out of frustration etc. I understand that, but she needs to be willing to go to counseling to help solve the situation. If she thinks she's right and he's wrong, fine, a counselor can help her out there and help resolve things. If she refuses, she's part of the problem. And if she refuses, I don't see any way out of it but divorce.

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mit2727 wrote:

Ok, but you ignore that the reason I am being stubborn this time is that I have given in unconditionally in the past, only to have the same situation arise again. I think I have demonstrated time and time again that I am willing to choose her, incondionally over....

1) x box- gave it up
2) water polo- gave it up and started playing again when she doesn't complain about it
3) working out, stopped going all together, unconditionally, untill she came around and told me she was being unreasonable and I should go " a few times a week"

See the pattern? How many times do I have to prove to her that she is "queen." How much of my life is going to be left if I do that for 50 years? She should know by now I'm willing to give things up to be with her and she should stop asking and let me enjoy myself every now and then.

I do see the pattern. As Ticomaya has pointed out, the problem is not about online poker, television sports, x-box, water polo, or working out. The problem is the excessive amount of time that you spend absorbed in other activities to the exclusion of spending time with your wife. Even if you're willing to give up something to satisfy your wife, you're not proving anything to her. You simply replace that activity with a new activity that still doesn't include your wife. That's the pattern.

You are very good at meeting your own needs for "me" time, but you don't use moderation. You are not very good at meeting her most important emotional needs. If you want a healthy marriage, you have to schedule daily time with your wife. All couples need affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fullfillment in order to sustain their love. If you lose that emotional / physical connection, the love fades and the marriage dies.

You need to DECIDE how important your marriage is to you. If it's pure torture spending time with your wife, then by all means, LET her divorce you.

If you want to stay married, then you need to bow to your wife's wishes and start rebuilding your marriage so it's a healthy marriage for BOTH of you. I suggest that you read and study the articles on the marriage builder's website:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/

If you still love your wife, invite her to explore and study the website with you . . . and it's very possible that the two of you can fall back in love and be happy together . . . if that's what you want. But, if you want something else . . . then don't prolong the misery. Get a divorce.

It's your choice. It's your decision.

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mit2727 wrote:

Ok, but you ignore that the reason I am being stubborn this time is that I have given in unconditionally in the past, only to have the same situation arise again. I think I have demonstrated time and time again that I am willing to choose her, incondionally over....

1) x box- gave it up
2) water polo- gave it up and started playing again when she doesn't complain about it
3) working out, stopped going all together, unconditionally, untill she came around and told me she was being unreasonable and I should go " a few times a week"

See the pattern? How many times do I have to prove to her that she is "queen." How much of my life is going to be left if I do that for 50 years? She should know by now I'm willing to give things up to be with her and she should stop asking and let me enjoy myself every now and then.

Yes, I see the pattern. Do you? I think you guys can work this out if you would ever communicate effectively.

The question you ought to be asking is: "Is she your queen?" Are you treating her as your queen? Are you making her feel that she is your queen? Are you giving 100% to her? To your marriage?

Pride, ego, and selfishness are very powerful, and can wreak havoc on relationships. I'm not preaching here, but I suggest you meditate on Proverbs 16:17-33. Hell, read all of Proverbs. It's full of wisdom you can use in your daily life and relationships. ("Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.")

mit2727 wrote:

And yes, you're right. When I have shown that I am willing to give something up completly and on her terms, she usually comes around and "lets" me engage in that activity to some extent. But HOW can you possibly live your life like this... You grant your wife the express authority to decide when and how much you engage in any activity you enjoy and have to ask permission to go work out, play poker, etc.. That's not a wife, that's a mother. Its immasculating and I can't deal with it. Instead, I offer to curtail it to some agreed upon number. But she doesn't want that, she wants complete control of the situation, "I should trust her not to be unreasonable". See how that is a control issue?

I see that you view it as a "control issue." Whether it actually is, I can't say. I don't know you or your wife, and can only glean what I can from your observations. It's evident you don't like the fact that your wife is needy, but the fact is she is the needy one in your relationship. She needs your time, focus and attention, and she isn't getting it to her satisfaction. I suspect she did prior to the marriage -- I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not.

Bella Dea wrote:

mit2727 wrote:
You grant your wife the express authority to decide when and how much you engage in any activity you enjoy and have to ask permission to go work out, play poker, etc.. That's not a wife, that's a mother. Its immasculating and I can't deal with it.

Then don't. That's the point we are all trying to make. If you don't want to deal with it than you have to find a solution. Your wife is not going to be the one to initiate the change.

Your relationship sounds more like a control issue than anything. What you need to find out, if you want to continue this marriage, is WHY she needs this control. Does she trust you? Does she feel insecure with the realtionship or herself? That is why getting a marriage counselor is SO IMPORTANT.

I agree with this. And I really think Bella hit it with her remark about your wife's insecurity. She isn't feeling secure. Counseling will help.

justa_babbling_brooke wrote:

I would love to hear the wifes side of the story.

I went back and re-read mit's first post. I am with Debra on this. Reason being -- the main focus of your post was how your wife doesn't want you playing poker. For two years this has been a huge problem in your marriage. I think if compromises were made in the beginning, the problem would not be so magnified today. You admitted in your first post that after that one big fight, you left the house and went to the office and played poker. Then tried to come back home. And you wonder why she was so pissed off she didn't want you coming home that night????

I think you both need counseling. I disagree with your wife's stubborness on this. Destroying clothes is not a healthy way to manage anger. It seems that she is just at the end of her rope and refusing to listen to anything you say anymore.

I feel like "the other side of the story" would be enlightening. :wink:

Anyways.......... you BOTH need to make compromises. You say you are willing to do that. Well, ya know what?? I think she has just grown so tired of coming in "last place" in your life that she has no room for compromise. If you BOTH chose not to - - you might just as well end it now as to end it later. And when and if that happens, I don't think either one of you should be pointing fingers at each other, for you are BOTH to blame.

And I agree with Brooke.

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Go to counselling, with or without her.

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He said he doesn't have any kids though and can hire people to do outside help -- he works a lot, but NO hobbies?? I don't think that's reasonable.

But, again:

Quote:

Neither party is perfect, neither party is evil incarnate -- going by the information here, the "real" story could edge either party closer to one or the other extreme. Perhaps mit has been living with an irrational harpy, has been patient, and finally reached the end of his rope. Perhaps mit is selfish and unfeeling and has been ignoring his wife's needs, leading her to fits of frustration and destroying of clothes.

I really agree with CJ's point about male/ female. I can't imagine that a woman who posted that she liked to watch her two favorite shows every weeknight -- an hour each -- and her husband refused to let her and demanded that she give it up or face divorce, and destroyed her clothes, and refused to go to counseling, would get the same reaction as mit is here.

Yes, ehBeth.

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Its is absolutly true my wife feels insecure because she tells me this everyday. She says that "I hold all the cards becuase "I make all the money and she would not be able to suppourt herself without me." She also says that "I am the only one who would want her." Niether of these things are true, and I tell her this everyday. As said, she is smart, she has a job that would support her if she needed it to (around 30K), and she is beutifull. However, she feels the need to constantly assert her influence over me in order to prove to herself that I belong to her. I don't know what to do about this. To her, I think, spending an hour not paying exclusive attention to her is a sign that she is loosing her grip over me and she is willing to do whatever it takes to keep that hold.

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I just re-read, to see about the conditions on counseling.

What I suggest is for you to give up poker. Just give it up without her agreeing to anything.

Then, once it's given up -- without conditions -- say you are deeply concerned about the relationship and you'd like to go to counseling with her.

If she still refuses, go on your own -- and decide a) whether to continue to try to salvage the relationship at all, or b) how to best get out of the relationship.

Good luck.

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That's a good angle, sozobe.

Take care of yourself, mit2727. If your wife will go to counselling with you, that's grand. If not, you need to review things with someone IRL - who can help you sort out whether you're in a relationship you can work within - or whether you will have to move on.

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sozobe wrote:

I just re-read, to see about the conditions on counseling.

What I suggest is for you to give up poker. Just give it up without her agreeing to anything.

Then, once it's given up -- without conditions -- say you are deeply concerned about the relationship and you'd like to go to counseling with her.

If she still refuses, go on your own -- and decide a) whether to continue to try to salvage the relationship at all, or b) how to best get out of the relationship.

Good luck.

I fully agree soz. I've been saying that since my first post. (Well, perhaps my second post.)

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There's a lot to agree with throughout these posts. I'm in the Debra, Brooke, Tico camp. There's a long history of Mit2727 filling his time with activities to the point where his wife just isn't going to put up with it any more.

Mit2727, I think she's simply fed up. You've found one activity after another to fill your time and she's had issues with all of them. I don't think it's necessarily about control on her part but, more likely, feeling taken for granted. She's given you an ultimatum and it's your choice whether to accept it or not. You don't have to accept it. You can decide that working an 11-hour day, plus time on the weekends, entitles you to a few hours of peace and quiet to enjoy some private pursuits in the evening. That's fine - it's your choice. She's simply saying that she doesn't feel married. She could be your sister or your dog for all the undivided attention she gets. I have a feeling that the dog would get more of your time than she does. If she doesn't feel married why should she stay married? She shouldn't. You shouldn't either unless you decide you want to be part of a committed marriage.

There is an excellent booked titled, "The Pathway", by Laurel Mellon. It's about people who do one or more things to excess (overeat, spend, overwork, smoke, drink too much, rescue others, put up walls, think too much, people please). One of the clients the book follows is an attorney who grew up poor, worked his ass off to get somewhere, got divorced, had a number of excesses and was unable to find intimacy in his life. The story of his parents and his upbringing was fascinating in how it molded his obsessive self nurturing. I highly recommend you read this book - it might open your eyes a bit.

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Threatened with divorce once again- am I crazy?

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