15
   

Kids in cages; how does anyone defend this

 
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:23 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Here is the question Layman is adressing: under what circumstances is it morally acceptable to hurt children. The answer seems to be...

1. You can hurt children when you are worried their parents might skip a court hearing.

2. You can hurt children when their parents have broken the law.

3. You can hurt children when you are afraid of Muslim terrorists.

4. You can hurt children when Democrats don't compromise with Trump.

5. You can hurt children when law enforcement nis just doing it's job.

I get your point exactly, Layman. Did I miss anything.

The issue is that the effects of this Trump administration policy are deeply offensive to the majority of Americans. These excuses aren't cutting it.



Layman has added two more to the list.

6. It is morally acceptable to hurt children if their own parents have made questionable decisions.

7. You can hurt children of the ACLU questions the practice of putting them in jail.




maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:27 am
@maxdancona,
Of course the Trump administration and their supporters are setting up a false choice. There are several humane ways to enforce the border without taking kids away from their families; ankle bracelets or humane places where families can be detained while waiting for a trial.

In any case, to the Trump team, the welfare of children seems to be the least of their concern. That is why the American public reacted so strongly.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:27 am
talked to some rl friends in the US about the thread title

Kids in cages; how does anyone defend this

pretty much the only thing they could come up with is : fear of brown people


___


it seems to always come back to fear in discussions of what's been happening in the US for the past decade or so
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:35 am
Well, whooda thunk, I ax ya? Every single one of my posts citing the words of the ACLU in response to Trump's order have all been censored (deleted) by some cheese-eatin admin.

Other than truth, there wasn't a single word in any of them which was inherently objectionable.

Probably a member of the ACLU.

EDIT: My bad. Apparently they weren't deleted. Or perhaps they were reinstated. Either way, never mind.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:40 am
@layman,
layman wrote:

Well, whooda thunk, I ax ya? Every single one of my posts citing the words of the ACLU in response to Trump's order have all been censored (deleted) by some cheese-eatin admin.

Other than truth, there wasn't a single word in any of them which was inherently objectionable.

Probably a member of the ACLU.


Strange...I can still see them all.

layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:47 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Strange...I can still see them all.


Well, that's good, then. Any comment on them, Ma?
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:50 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

talked to some rl friends in the US about the thread title

Kids in cages; how does anyone defend this

pretty much the only thing they could come up with is : fear of brown people


___


it seems to always come back to fear in discussions of what's been happening in the US for the past decade or so


Your circle of "friends" appears to be quite limited, eh? Do you ever talk to, or listen to, anyone else?
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:01 pm
@maxdancona,
The critique of 'zero-tolerance' is obfuscating the fact that a tolerance policy is a repressive policy tactic that allows the government to enforce or not enforce laws at will, which makes power very arbitrary and unpredictable. Uniform enforcement of laws may result in some ugly results, like the situation with family separations, but that is what motivates legislators to create responsible laws and policies instead of making laws harsh and then showing mercy through tolerance policies that ultimately allow them to ramp up the harshness with zero-tolerance against those they deem deserving of it.

In effect, this is what the previous administration was doing, i.e. only enforcing the law for the people they deemed fit to expel. Probably the people deported were systematically picked up by gangs and tortured/killed. Probably the people reported and deported were targeted for some reason and filtered through the system as such.

Otherwise, crime bosses can use the tolerance policy for families to recruit young parents to do dirty 'migrant' work, such as trafficking drugs, prostitution, etc. They just tell these women to bring their kids with them and the worst that will happen to them is that they'll get caught and released. Impunity gives a green light to crime bosses for recruitment.

It would be great if they would just allow people to migrate freely based on personal interests, but the reality of this world is that people are desperate for money and they can make easy money by selling drugs and sex and performing other undesirable labor under the threat of deportation if they fail to submit.

Until the rights of migrants are fully protected to the point where they can't be exploited, border tolerance only makes it easier to exploit them. The nations of the world could all unite and provide migrant rights for everyone in every country, but national citizens the world over would protest this, so really we're stuck with deportations and border control despite the inhumanity of it.
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:06 pm
@livinglava,
Well, hold on. Wait just a damn minute here, eh, Lava?

Are you really trying to suggest that there is anything to consider OTHER THAN a crying baby!?
layman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:22 pm
Nobody gets out of jail, pending trial, in this country without putting up bond (bail). The bond has to be sufficient to virtually assure that the accused will appear for trial rather than forfeit it.

In cases of high flight risk, and for other reasons (see, e.g., Paul Manafort), bail may be denied no matter how much the accused is willing to put up in bond.

The average citizen has a lot to lose (job, home, etc.) by becoming a fugitive and going "on the lamb." In some cases (usually very minor ones, like seatbelt violations, etc.) they may be released simply by promising to appear. Additionally, generally everybody knows where to find them if they don't.

Aliens have nothing to lose, and generally no money to put up even if they did. They, as a class, are an extremely high flight risk. Releasing them on their own promise has been proven to be virtually worthless as a means of assuring that they will appear as promised.

They gotta be detained until their case is heard.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:42 pm
That last post was made in response to this suggestion:

Max wrote:
There are several humane ways to enforce the border without taking kids away from their families; ankle bracelets or humane places where families can be detained while waiting for a trial.


Where would a "humane place" be, I wonder? The penthouse suite at the Regency Hyatt, maybe? Maybe you'd like to head down to your local immigrant detention center and offer to pay that for a family of 8, eh? Better would be for you to offer to pay for 50,000 people a month, if you can afford it. Don't forget to give them all daily meal money, too, OK, Max?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 12:59 pm
I had a homey who came home one night only to find that 5 homeless people had busted into his crib.

That poor guy. He took a second job, then a third one, in an attempt to keep feeding them all. He bought mattresses so that they could sleep comfortably in virtually every room of his small house.

I asked him why he didn't just throw all of their bum asses out.

He said: "That wouldn't be humane."

The chump.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 01:48 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Here is the question Layman is adressing: under what circumstances is it morally acceptable to hurt children. The answer seems to be...
1. You can hurt children when you are worried their parents might skip a court hearing.
2. You can hurt children when their parents have broken the law.
3. You can hurt children when you are afraid of Muslim terrorists.
4. You can hurt children when Democrats don't compromise with Trump.
5. You can hurt children when law enforcement nis just doing it's job.
I get your point exactly, Layman. Did I miss anything.
The issue is that the effects of this Trump administration policy are deeply offensive to the majority of Americans. These excuses aren't cutting it.
Good grief. If you want children to be sent to prison alongside their parents, go ahead and advocate for that change.

But it isn't fair to blame Trump for the fact that we don't do this yet.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 01:49 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
talked to some rl friends in the US about the thread title
Kids in cages; how does anyone defend this
pretty much the only thing they could come up with is : fear of brown people
Barack Obama must have been really afraid of brown people when he set up those detention centers.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 02:01 pm
Well. so what? It's a picture, aint it? Of a kid cryin. What else ya want?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfx_-eBUEAEIfty.jpg:large

Quote:
“The June 12 photograph of the 2-year-old Honduran girl became the most visible symbol of the ongoing immigration debate in America for a reason: Under the policy enforced by the administration, prior to its reversal this week, those who crossed the border illegally were criminally prosecuted, which in turn resulted in the separation of children and parents," TIME editor-in-chief Edward Felsenthal said. "Our cover and our reporting capture the stakes of this moment.”

Multiple outlets interviewed the father of the girl behind the iconic image, and he said he had learned that his two-year-old daughter was detained with her mother at a facility in Texas, and the two were not separated at all. The Honduran government confirmed his version of events to Reuters.

TIME included the following correction: "The original version of this story misstated what happened to the girl in the photo after she taken from the scene. The girl was not carried away screaming by U.S. Border Patrol agents; her mother picked her up and the two were taken away together."


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/22/crying-migrant-girl-on-time-magazine-cover-was-not-separated-from-mother-family-says.html

layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 02:53 pm
@layman,
More from that's girl's father:

Quote:
"You can imagine how I felt when I saw that photo of my daughter. It broke my heart. It's difficult as a father to see that, but I know now that they are not in danger. They are safer now than when they were making that journey to the border," Denis Javier Varela Hernandez told The Daily Mail.

He also said he did not support his wife’s decision to make the perilous trek to the U.S. and that they have three other children together.


Sounds like intentional cruelty to fathers by the MSM to me, eh? I guess that Mama had a favorite, out of her four kids. Well, then again, maybe it was her least favorite.

I wonder if her other 3 kids are crying because their mother separated herself from them, and aint never coming back if she gets her way, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 06:41 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Strange...I can still see them all.


Well, that's good, then. Any comment on them, Ma?


I didn't think so.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 10:29 pm
Personally, I don't really give a **** about polls, but this is for you, Max, since you do. Americans are starting to wise up about all the false information the left and their MSM mouthpieces have been trying to mislead them with:


Quote:
Poll: Majority side with Trump on immigration, blame parents for detention crisis

According to the poll, 54 percent of likely voters said that the parents of detained children are to blame for knowingly breaking the law in the first place. Only 35 percent blame the Trump administration for the crisis.

The poll numbers seem to show a discrepancy between the media’s coverage of the crisis - which featured news anchors shedding on-air tears and celebrities calling for bizarrely cruel punishment for Trump’s family - and the public’s opinion.

Overall, Trump’s approach to immigration is a popular one according to the poll. 54 percent of respondents agree with President Trump’s assertion that "The United States will not be a migrant camp, and it will not be a refugee holding facility. Not on my watch."

Only 37 percent of voters said that they would like to live in a ‘sanctuary community,’ where local authorities shield illegal immigrants from prosecution by federal immigration authorities.


https://www.rt.com/usa/430584-americans-support-trump-separation/

Nice try, cheese-eaters.
Agent1741
 
  0  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:02 pm
Ask congress they are the ones that so far cannot agree on a solution!!!
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2018 11:26 pm
It's now being reported (I saw it on CBS) that almost all of the kids have been reunited with their families.

What's your next bitch?
0 Replies
 
 

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