8
   

Any Suggestions on What Can Be Winning [Strategy] For Democrats?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2018 01:24 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
The NRA has politicians by the balls because they control gerrymandered districts.
Gerrymandering probably helps. But there would still be enough pro-Second Amendment districts to protect our freedom even without gerrymandering. Or even if the Democrats were able to gerrymander in their favor.

maxdancona wrote:
All I am pointing out is that you (and Coldjoint) are not with the majority of Americans on this issue. You have view on the Second Amendment that most Americans don't share. Maybe you are right and most Americans are wrong about the Second Amendment... but that doesn't matter, we are talking about electoral politics.
Keep in mind that these voters who hate civil rights that you are trying to win over, don't hate civil rights nearly enough to make it a deciding issue on election day.

maxdancona wrote:
Democrats should craft a positive message where they define what they mean by "assault rifles" and then explain why they should be banned.
There's a big problem for the Democrats right there. There is no reason to ban them.

Democrats only try to ban them because they enjoy violating people's rights for no reason.

maxdancona wrote:
They should also craft clear policies on background checks and closing loopholes.
And another problem for Democrats. "Loophole" is a buzzword used when legislation can't be justified by any practical argument. So if they have to resort to that, then clearly the policy in question can't be justified.

maxdancona wrote:
These are all things that are supported by the majority of Americans. That's how you win elections.
No. A party wins and keeps power by achieving things for the voters.

Wasting all of your time and energy and not having anything to show for it is a way to turn off the voters and keep the other party in power.
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2018 12:38 am
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
And another problem for Democrats. "Loophole" is a buzzword used when legislation can't be justified by any practical argument. So if they have to resort to that, then clearly the policy in question can't be justified.
Gun control can be satisfied by a comparison to the US murder rate compared to any other developed country. This is the only country where mass shootings are a regular occurrence. People are getting sick of it, that's why the right is trying to demonize David Hogg for having the courage to speak out.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2018 10:28 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
David Hogg for having the courage to speak out.

Hogg does not have courage he has backing(money) from Communists and progressives trying to ban guns. And the MSM that comes with those two collectivist groups.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2018 12:35 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Gun control can be satisfied by a comparison to the US murder rate compared to any other developed country.
Misleading comparisons using cherry-picked data don't provide much justification for anything.

Blickers wrote:
This is the only country where mass shootings are a regular occurrence. People are getting sick of it,
That could possibly justify a gun control law that is designed to fix the problem.

It doesn't justify a gun control law that is not designed to fix any problem and is just meant to violate people's rights for no reason.

Blickers wrote:
that's why the right is trying to demonize David Hogg for having the courage to speak out.
To tell you the truth, I have paid no attention to this David Hogg person. I do know that the whiny brats in general are calling to violate people's rights for no reason. Does he share their views?

The whiny brats are being condemned because people don't like it when someone comes along and tries to violate their rights for fun.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2018 12:50 pm
Has anyone suggested that Democrats could shave their asses and walk backwards? Shocked
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  5  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 01:36 am
@oralloy,
Quote Oralloy:
Quote:
To tell you the truth, I have paid no attention to this David Hogg person. I do know that the whiny brats in general are calling to violate people's rights for no reason. Does he share their views?

The whiny brats are being condemned because people don't like it when someone comes along and tries to violate their rights for fun.

David Hogg found himself in a classroom closet with the rest of his classmates hoping that the student who got hold of an AR-15 and used it to shoot up his high school didn't get around to them.

He didn't, but not after he killed many other students.

The NRA says that's tragic kid, but I'm not giving up playing Rambo on weekends just because some schoolkids are taking a few bullets every now and then.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 02:42 am
@Blickers,
Possessing a rifle with a pistol grip is hardly playing Rambo.

Attempts to ban pistol grips are not about trying to save lives. The only goal of such legislation is to violate people's rights for fun.

The whiny brats are rightfully condemned for trying to violate people's rights for fun. They should be ashamed of themselves.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 10:07 am
http://www.usmessageboard.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ar15.com%2Fmedia%2FmediaFiles%2F28822%2Fygo9npu3z7o01-551726.JPG&hash=faa04299b2988f193f2a1c1a1a3d2ec5
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 10:46 am
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
Possessing a rifle with a pistol grip is hardly playing Rambo.
And yet increasing numbers of people are going into crowded places such as schools and shooting multiple people with these weapons.

Banning them is the only sane response. Doing so does not violate the Second Amendment at all.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 11:16 am
@Blickers,
Quote:
And yet increasing numbers of people are going into crowded places such as schools and shooting multiple people with these weapons.

That is societies fault, not guns. Solving secondary problems and depriving people of their Constitutional rights with unpopular laws is not the answer.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 03:30 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
And yet increasing numbers of people are going into crowded places such as schools and shooting multiple people with these weapons.
I highly doubt that there is any evidence of such a trend.

But even if it were true, the presence of the pistol grip would not change the outcome of the attack, so it wouldn't make any difference anyway.

Blickers wrote:
Banning them is the only sane response.
Violating people's rights for no reason is neither sane nor insane. But it's not a very nice thing to do.

Blickers wrote:
Doing so does not violate the Second Amendment at all.
That is incorrect. Laws are only allowed to restrict a constitutional right if there is a very good reason for that restriction.

There isn't a good reason for banning pistol grips.
thack45
 
  4  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 04:32 pm
@Real Music,
Putting the Obamas, Clintons and Biden in a room somewhere untill nov 6 2019 would be a good start
coldjoint
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 04:51 pm
@thack45,
Quote:
Putting the Obamas, Clintons and Biden in a room somewhere untill nov 6 2019 would be a good start

That would be a good way to see how far left Democrats will go. They could be better off letting them talk.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 05:51 pm
https://iotwreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ridin-with-biden-iotwreport.com-teeny-.jpg
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 09:59 pm
@oralloy,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
And yet increasing numbers of people are going into crowded places such as schools and shooting multiple people with these weapons.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
I highly doubt that there is any evidence of such a trend.
I'm afraid you're wrong. Here is a list of the mass shootings using an AR-15 type weapon since 2012:

June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.

Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.

June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.

March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.

May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.

Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.

Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.

June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.

Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.

Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.

Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.


It's clearly getting worse and worse. Semiauto rifles which resemble automatic assault rifles need to go right now.

Why should schoolkids have to hide in classroom closets hoping their deranged classmates with an AR-15 or similar weapon doesn't find them? They don't in other advanced countries-only in America.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Jun, 2018 10:31 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
I'm afraid you're wrong. Here is a list of the mass shootings using an AR-15 type weapon since 2012:
I know there have been a handful of incidents over the years. I'm just questioning the idea that there is an increasing trend.

Blickers wrote:
Semiauto rifles which resemble automatic assault rifles need to go right now.
Since there is no reason for them to go, there is no need for them to go.

And since there is no reason for them to go, any prohibition against them is unconstitutional.

Blickers wrote:
Why should schoolkids have to hide in classroom closets hoping their deranged classmates with an AR-15 or similar weapon doesn't find them? They don't in other advanced countries-only in America.
They aren't hiding because of a pistol grip on the gun. They are hiding because someone is trying to shoot them. The pistol grip is irrelevant.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 12:54 am
@oralloy,
Those guns with pistol grips have been leading the pack in rifles used for mass murders. Their similarity to automatic rifles sets the deranged off, as this spate of mass murders performed by the mentally ill determined to out in a Blaze Of Glory taking as many with them attests.

How many more schoolkids have to die before you are willing to do something. And once again, you do NOT need a special reason to outlaw these guns. The Second Amendment says you have the right to bear arms, it says nothing about the right to bear ANY arm you so choose. These guns were outlawed before, then the law was foolishly allowed to lapse. It ban needs to be reinstated.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 01:42 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Those guns with pistol grips have been leading the pack in rifles used for mass murders.
If so, that has made no difference to the outcome of the attacks.

Blickers wrote:
Their similarity to automatic rifles sets the deranged off, as this spate of mass murders performed by the mentally ill determined to out in a Blaze Of Glory taking as many with them attests.
There is no reason to think that having a pistol grip on a gun makes anyone decide to kill people. The same people would be killing even if they didn't have a pistol grip on their gun.

Blickers wrote:
How many more schoolkids have to die before you are willing to do something.
There is no limit. Dead schoolchildren have nothing to do with an effort to violate people's rights for no reason.

Blickers wrote:
And once again, you do NOT need a special reason to outlaw these guns.
That is incorrect. A law is only allowed to restrict a right if that restriction can be justified with a very good reason.

Blickers wrote:
The Second Amendment says you have the right to bear arms, it says nothing about the right to bear ANY arm you so choose.
True. If someone can provide a good reason to justify a restriction, then the restriction will be allowed (so long as it is not so severe that it impedes self defense).

Blickers wrote:
These guns were outlawed before, then the law was foolishly allowed to lapse. It ban needs to be reinstated.
That there was ever such a law proves that the Democrats are out to violate our rights for no reason, and it justifies blocking gun registration and stronger background checks in order to limit the government's ability to commit further violations.
Blickers
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 06:59 am
@oralloy,
Quote Blickers:
Quote:
Those guns with pistol grips have been leading the pack in rifles used for mass murders.

Quote oralloy:
Quote:
If so, that has made no difference to the outcome of the attacks.
You have no basis to make that statement. You don't know what might be the final piece to set a mentally ill individual off. There has been a massive glorification of assault rifles going on for the past couple of decades, which has been accompanied by a massive increase in the use of the semiautomatic version of these rifles to commit mass slaughters. These mentally ill individuals, most of whom expect to die in these incidents, clearly have chosen the closest weapons available to those glorified automatic assault weapon-the semiautomatic version of those same weapons. Enough of the slaughters-ban them now.

Quote Oralloy:
Quote:
There is no reason to think that having a pistol grip on a gun makes anyone decide to kill people.
Yet more and more people are being killed every year by deranged people using those pistol grip rifles. And many of those people killed are schoolkids. Of course these mentally ill people are drawn to the power of these weapons-that's the reason people buy them. It sure as hell isn't to kill deer-it's to play Rambo.

Our schoolchildren are being slaughtered because politicians are afraid of pissing off middle aged men who want to feed their fantasies with real life war toys.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 16 Jun, 2018 02:21 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
You have no basis to make that statement.
Sure I do. The presence of the pistol grip does not make the gun any deadlier. It is functionally identical to what the gun would be like without a pistol grip.

Blickers wrote:
You don't know what might be the final piece to set a mentally ill individual off. There has been a massive glorification of assault rifles going on for the past couple of decades, which has been accompanied by a massive increase in the use of the semiautomatic version of these rifles to commit mass slaughters. These mentally ill individuals, most of whom expect to die in these incidents, clearly have chosen the closest weapons available to those glorified automatic assault weapon-the semiautomatic version of those same weapons.
The notion that having a pistol grip on their gun will make someone decide to go on a killing spree is ludicrous. There is no basis for concluding such a thing. We may as well ban red cars in the belief that red makes people drive above the speed limit.

Blickers wrote:
Enough of the slaughters-ban them now.
No. We are not going to violate people's rights for no reason.

Blickers wrote:
Yet more and more people are being killed every year by deranged people using those pistol grip rifles.
I am not convinced of such a trend. But even if it is true, the presence of a pistol grip would not change the outcome of these attacks.

Blickers wrote:
And many of those people killed are schoolkids.
How many school shootings have involved an AR-15? Three is it? I've not looked it up myself, but I think I saw that number mentioned by other people recently.

Blickers wrote:
Of course these mentally ill people are drawn to the power of these weapons-that's the reason people buy them.
Having a pistol grip on a rifle does not increase its power in any way.

Blickers wrote:
It sure as hell isn't to kill deer-it's to play Rambo.
If someone goes deer hunting using a gun with a pistol grip, their purpose is to hunt deer.

However, even if someone's reason for buying a gun is to "play Rambo" (whatever that means), that is their private business. So long as there is no justification for prohibiting the gun that they want, the Constitution protects their right to have it.

Blickers wrote:
Our schoolchildren are being slaughtered because politicians are afraid of pissing off middle aged men who want to feed their fantasies with real life war toys.
No. The presence of pistol grips on guns is not causing any harm to anyone.

And it is more than just pissing off voters (although there is certainly that too). There is also the fact that a ban on pistol grips would be a grave violation of our human rights.
 

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