Re: rebuttal
Debra_Law wrote:Noah The African wrote:First, to suggest that everyone must pay taxes ignores the fact that not everyone had to be slaves and thus not everyone is descendants of slaves. True, it is the law that everyone must pay taxes; however, it was also the law that people (black people) could be held as slaves, while others were free. Secondly, it is OUR money
the black taxpayers that would go into a fund for black peoples. That does not mean that we would not be taxed, but that our tax dollars would be collected and pulled into a fund for black reparations.
You were NEVER a slave. Slavery was abolished decades before you were even born. Today, as a citizen, you are guaranteed equal protection under the laws. Discrimination is unlawful. You are not entitled to "reparations" from the government. You have failed to state a claim upon which relief may be granted.
Your request that black people be segregated from the rest of society, separately taxed, and have their tax dollars redistributed as handouts to blacks is DENIED.
Noah The African wrote:Secondly, opportunity in America is determined by the economic laws of supply and demand. People do not control their fate in the system, but rather, their fate is dependant upon opportunities the system is supplying. For example, recessions or contractions in the economy lead to people losing jobs and income, despite them being educated or not. When a large number of white folks are out of work, it is attributed to the economy not supplying enough opportunities. When large numbers of blacks are out of work, it is not attributed to the economy, but laziness and the unwillingness to grasp opportunity. The fact of the matter is that there has been massive divestment from black communities, eroding the tax base, education and job opportunities due to "white flight"
If the white people are going where the jobs are located; then why don't the black people do the same? I don't understand your argument that white people can simply pick up and leave an economically depressed area and move around the nation in search of jobs, but black people can't do the same.
Noah The African wrote:Thirdly, what are the lies that I have spoken? how can speaking the truth be considered an attitude? If it can be considered an attitude, then that attitude is called HONESTY. If honesty is self defeating, then I am not looking for success from the virtues of dishonesty. Maybe that is black peoples problem
we are not WICKED enough to get ahead and compete in a wicked world. I guess the summation of your premise is that nice guys finish last.
It is true that slavery once existed in this country. I never said that was a lie. It is true that racial discrimination / racial segregation was once facilitated by our government. I never said that was a lie.
But the people of this nation recognized the wrongs of the past and and the government took the necessary steps (decades ago) to remedy those past wrongs and to put laws into place to prohibit discrimination / segregation and to promote integration.
You're the one who refuses to grasp the opportunities this country has to offer ALL PERSONS for education and jobs. Instead, you have an unjustified sense of entitlement. You want handouts simply because you're black. You want the government to give you everything you want without earning it yourself. I call that a self-defeating attitude and a refusal to accept personal responsibility your own life.
You think you're entitled to handouts from the government on the sole basis of your skin color. I disagree with you. This has nothing to do with the "nice guy finishing last."
Noah The African wrote:Fourthly, personal responsibility extends to the government as well. If the government breaks something, it should be held responsible for fixing it. You cannot have a government of credibility that walks west while talking east. In other words, the government cannot preach responsibility, accountability and consequence for actions while not being responsible, accountable or facing any consequences for its legalizing the oppression of black people, which resulted in the socio and economic gaps that exists between blacks and white today.
The government took responsibility and did fix the problem -- decades ago. The government enacted laws that prohibit discrimination and segregation between the races. Those laws are enforced.
Now that the government has done everything it can possibly do, the only thing left to be done is for you to accept personal responsibility for your own life. If you want to close the "gap," you have to embrace the opportunities for education that will prepare you and your children for the better jobs. You have to embrace a strong work ethic and instill that work ethic into your children. Pretty simple concept: Personal responsibility.
Noah The African wrote:Fifthly, this is a government of the people, for the people and by the peoples.
YES. I agree. But you want to separate and segregate the people based on the color of their skin. I prefer the integration of all people into society.
Noah The African wrote:Who are the pluralities of those people? White peoples, that's who. Thus, when you talk about the government in this representative republic, you are talking about white people.
NOT TRUE. Your premise is faulty.
Noah The African wrote:Hence, the suggestion that white people have done all they can to integrate those that it oppressed back into society is laughable. We were already integral to the society
because much of its foundation was built of our oppression. It is not you who have given us anything, but us who have provided a place for European people's ancestors to come to in their attempts to escape the tyranny and oppression of all white Europe at the time.
Your view of history is skewed. The foundation of this country was NOT built upon the oppression of black people.
We could easily argue that the foundation of this country was built on the oppression of religion in England . . . causing the pilgrims to immigrate to this country . . . and therefore, the descendants of the formerly oppressed pilgrims are entitled to reparations from England.
Where do we draw the line?
You need to let go of your unjustified sense of entitlement and your demands for government handouts and accept personal responsibility for your own life.
Noah The African wrote:Lastly, If someone starts rapping someone else, then stops, the action of stopping does not negate the starting. If you are raped, gods forbid, does the person stopping what they started make things even and whole? Of course not. To suggest that just because the government eventually put a legal end to what it legally promoted for centuries
as making things correct
is asinine and insulting.
You were not raped. End of case.
Economically I am doing well, probably better than most of you. Thus, reparations is not for ME, it is for the pulling up of blacks still caught up in the vortex that is slavery and Apartheids aftermath. In regards to what the government owes, it's all a matter of power. Justice is only rendered when there is a force more powerful than the perpetrator of the crimes. When crimes against humanity are committed by those with the most power, those crimes go unpunished and without justice to victims. There have been 3 centuries of blacks in America denied the proper income for their labors. Three centuries of the proper pay would have created income that would have been transferred into wealth, likely in the form of land ownership. Wealth is transferred through the generations to the descendants. Thus, most black people suffer from the lost inheritance from three centuries of unpaid and underpaid labor. It makes perfect sense to know why white wealth in America is 14 times that of black wealth in America. Black wealth in America should be 14 times the white wealth in America, because most black have much longer lineages in this land than to white peoples. The average black person in America is at least 12 generations. Most white people did not come here until the mid and late 1800's, when they were escaping the all white utopia of Europe, with their tired and huddled masses yearning to be free from tyranny and oppression. Thus, black have been working and creating this land, without pay, long before most of your ancestors arrived here and that work should have been converted to wealth which would be passed down generational
.if not for the GOVERNMENT legalizing the enslavement and discrimination against black people. Hence, even though I was not a slave, I have less inherited wealth because my ancestors were slaves. Furthermore, I have a living father and mother who lived under government apartheid in the South, which denied them opportunities and forced them into the peonage of share cropping.
You cannot deny black people anything. Forsaking this societies debts to black people will come back to haunt this society. In a world of terrorist and people trying to do harm to America, its is not wise to have a disgruntled segment of your population that others could use to divide conquer or sink this nation. The way America controls and destabilizes other nations is by working with the oppressed groups in those nations and pitting them against those who are the privileged regime. One day someone will do that in America
if America fails to address its crime against the humanity of a segment of its citizens.
In regards to white flight, it is the luxury of those with the income to fly. I you have to ask the question of why poor people don't move to where the richer people are living, you are as blind as a bat. There are none as blind as though who refuse to see. Do yourself a favor and compare black and white family income and see why many blacks cannot afford to move where whites are moving to. Furthermore, for years, the practice of redlining by banks steered blacks away from white communities. When blacks finally do move into previously all white areas
WHITES MOVE OUT. Whites historically associate growing black population percentage with declining property values. Guess what
it is a self fulfilling prophecy born from white racism. Whites have the most money and number in this society. Thus, white demand is essentially what sets housing values. Hence, when black percentages start increasing, white demands decreases and stagnates home appreciation rates.
You express ignorance. The prime directive of life is survival and the issue of survival in humanity is mainly an issue of economics and resources. To build a viable country one must build a viable economy. This nation was founded in the agrarian economic era, which was dependant upon massive cheap labor for economic success. That cheap labor took the form of African slaves for nearly 3 centuries. Land, Labor and Capital were the pillars of wealth creation. Two thirds of those pillars were stolen via crimes against humanity. The land was taken from the natives, while the labor was forced upon the African through slavery. The capital came from Wealthy Europeans. This created the foundation and success of our nation and financed the transition to the industrial era, which eliminated the need for slavery. Most white people came to this nation AFTER THE FACT of its creation
by black labor and Native lands. If not for this
.where would your ancestors have gone to in order to escape the persecution and oppression of Europe? The fact is that YOU OWE BLACK AND NATIVE PEOPLES, for creating the foundation for you ancestors to run away to. When you had your all white world
it was HELL. The monarchy, aristocracy and church created a hell for the white masses, while the elites lived the good life. The masses of white folks did not see an improvement in their lives until the came in contact with people of color. You took their land and resources, forced their labor and expanded opportunities for more white people. This is all the FACTS OF HISTORY.
You are still the SAME PEOPLE. There has not been a character and moral evolution that makes you any different. Today
you just lack the necessity to be as evil as you were in the past. Now you have the power. Now you have the wealth. Now you nearly control everything. There is no need to be evil as a means of meeting this end. Now, your evil manifest to maintain those ends.
Don't have me uncover your wickedness and expose it....I am just getting started.
The whole thing makes me dizzy. And sick.
