What does slavery have to do with Today?

I, however, am removing myself from this thread as I will not change your mind, nor will you change mine.

0 Replies

Bella Dea wrote:

So what would you like for me to say? That I owe you something? I don't owe you anything.

I don't owe the people who built this country anything. They did it of their owe free will. I respect them. I thank them. But I don't owe them. And I know that the people who fought for all the freedoms I have, wouldn't ask me for reparation for what they went through.

First of all I am not trying to change your mind. Again, I would have to make an assumption about your character that would contradict the empirical data from history concerning most, but not all, white folks. It would be counter intuitive for me to assume against empirical evidence. My goal is to simply expose your contradiction and the fact that you are unwilling to address them. One I point them out I am confident in the fact that you are racist in effect if not intent. I need not your admission or to change your mind.

Secondly, you keep talking about what YOU owe ME, when this is not about YOU owing ME. It is about the GOVERNMENTS debts created from its legally facilitating the oppression of black people. The government pays its debts through taxes and policy changes. As far as I am concerned, blacks should not have to pay taxes in America. The taxes we pay collective could be redirected to our specific benefit and needs. That way whites would not have to pay NOTHING, towards reparations. Yet, most whites would be against this tooeven though it cost whites NOTHING. They will be upset that blacks are getting a benefit that they are not getting, despite getting 4 centuries of benefits when blacks were not. This is not about principleit's about preserving white privilege and advantageRACISM.

Thirdly, just so that you knowyou did not owe the people of Iraq anything either. You do not owe Israel anything either. Yet, your tax dollars goes to them each year.

Fourthly, I predicted your departure from this debatebecause that is what the majority of white people do when they cannot logically and truthfully repudiate the message.

You have been entertaining, if not informative.

0 Replies

Think what you want. Government money comes from where? Oh yeah, me. And all the rest of Americans through their taxes.

Thanks for the grim look into the furture of this country.

0 Replies

Noah The African wrote:

because that is what the majority of white people do when they cannot logically and truthfully repudiate the message.

You sorta lost credence there my friend...as silly as me attributing some trait because you're black.

0 Replies

hmm.. i have a lot to say..
i will be back with it in a minute.

0 Replies

Lost credence? I think one would have to posses something before they can lose it. As soon as a black person starts talking about he history of black and white in America, credence with the majority of whites is lost.

I do not care about credence or the perception there of. What I care about is the TRUTH, whether it appears credible or not.

Instead of spending the effort telling me that I am wrong or not credible, please spend the time demonstrating how such is true. I demonstrated the contradictions in the ladies supposed principle when it came to the justification of her objections to reparations. That is the type of rebuttal and critique that I am looking for of my message.

0 Replies

shewolfnm wrote:

hmm.. i have a lot to say..
i will be back with it in a minute.

I am salavating with anticipation Rolling Eyes

0 Replies

Noah The African wrote:

Instead of spending the effort telling me that I am wrong or not credible, please spend the time demonstrating how such is true. I demonstrated the contradictions in the ladies supposed principle when it came to the justification of her objections to reparations. That is the type of rebuttal and critique that I am looking for of my message.

Noah The African wrote:

I am not expecting white folks to pay reparationsrather; I am simply EXPOSING you all for who you really are. Come on nowdo you think that I would think that a people (white folks) who allowed our enslavement for 245 years and who allowed 100 years of apartheid and who frequently still discriminatewould pay reparations? That's laughable. It would assume that I assumed some sort of character shift in white people to the point that they are somehow different from whites in the past. You might not be the racist that knocked me downbut you might be the racist that attempts to keep me from getting up.

Is the tolerance and understanding that you are showing here the same way you want us to act towards you? Rolling Eyes

I am convinced that as long as we continue to make race an issue, racism will also be an issue. We preach equality and then segregate ourselves by pointing out the differences in ourselves. For example you call yourself "Noah the African." Simply by calling yourself this you are choosing to make race an issue. We say that race and the color of our skin doesn't matter and then you rub it in our face whenever it suits your purpose.

0 Replies

Blacks shouldn't have to pay taxes???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Keep sticking out your hand.

0 Replies

jpinMilwaukee wrote:

Noah The African wrote:
Instead of spending the effort telling me that I am wrong or not credible, please spend the time demonstrating how such is true. I demonstrated the contradictions in the ladies supposed principle when it came to the justification of her objections to reparations. That is the type of rebuttal and critique that I am looking for of my message.

Noah The African wrote:
I am not expecting white folks to pay reparationsrather; I am simply EXPOSING you all for who you really are. Come on nowdo you think that I would think that a people (white folks) who allowed our enslavement for 245 years and who allowed 100 years of apartheid and who frequently still discriminatewould pay reparations? That's laughable. It would assume that I assumed some sort of character shift in white people to the point that they are somehow different from whites in the past. You might not be the racist that knocked me downbut you might be the racist that attempts to keep me from getting up.

Is the tolerance and understanding that you are showing here the same way you want us to act towards you?

I am convinced that as long as we continue to make race an issue, racism will also be an issue. We preach equality and then segregate ourselves by pointing out the differences in ourselves. For example you call yourself "Noah the African." Simply by calling yourself this you are choosing to make race an issue. We say that race and the color of our skin doesn't matter and then you rub it in our face whenever it suits your purpose.

Tolerance and understanding..what are you talking about. Let's pretend that we are vulcuns (like Dr. Spoke) and simply speak in logical discourse. Interjecting emotionality simply obfuscates the logic.

The problem with your recommendation is that it "writes off" the effect to black people from past white racism. Actions produce reactions. The effect of white oppression of blacks manifested an aftermath upon black people. If one wants to target the aftermath for correctionthen one must target black people. Going "color blind" before the aftermath of color prejudice has been corrected simply preserves the effects of white cooler prejudice. How convenient for white superiority. You do not have to knock me down to stay superioryou just need to keep me from getting up.

0 Replies

Two questions:

Who knocked you down?

If you could have what ever you wanted to make things "equal" what would it be?

0 Replies

Noah The African wrote:

shewolfnm wrote:
hmm.. i have a lot to say..
i will be back with it in a minute.

I am salavating with anticipation

then whipe it up because here it is.

I am a black woman.
I am proud to BE a black woman.
I am a black woman married to a WHITE man.
I am proud to BE married to a white man.
I hate this post.
I hate to see a black man screaming about being repressed and fueling an anger twords white people and calling it " educational" .
By demeaning a person because of thier race, and digging into the history of thier race, you are doing exactly what has been done to your ancestors. And if you choose to disrespect what your ancestors fought and died for by fueling racisim today, then so be it.

You were not born with a tree on your back. Dont pretend its there.

I absolutly agree that there is STILL a problem with the way some people treat blacks today. Hands down it is a HUGE problem.

Spouting hatred and anger about it isnt going to get you anywhere.
Do you really think your slave ancestors endured what they did, stood up for thier rights, and took the horrible life abuse that was handed to them so you could sit around and complain about it after freedom was granted?
NO
They endured this stuff so you could go on and be a productive person in society, have a life that wasnt owned by someone else and have PRIDE.
Pride doesnt equal anger.
I understand WHY you are angry and you have the RIGHT to be angry, your family as well as mine were brutilized simply because of thier skin color. Dont perpetuate that behavior by passing on more anger.
The slavery hatred starts with individual people saying enough is enough.

I am also Cherokee.
I am proud to be Cherokee.
Cherokee and all other american indian nations were slaughtered beyond belief ! Over 3.7 MILLION of them were killed in under 100 years. There isnt enough of them left to fight. THere isnt enough of them left to claim what should be thier's. But they realize that enough is enough. Time to stop the hatred and move on. Generations of whites have existed since the murderous pilgrams who slaughtered thier families. Noone points the finger anymore. Peace has begun.

You can not solve histories problems with anger. The one thing anger teaches us is that anger fuels fire.
I am not in any way trying to INVALIDATE your anger. In fact, I feel it as well. But I dont loathe in hatred for things that are out of my control. I can not turn back time and change what happened to generations of MY family, as you cant yours, so do what is IN YOUR POWER and begin now. Peace. Simplicity, acceptance. Not saying accept the pain that was experienced by your ancestors, I am sayig accept the peace that is begining. Dont stop it with anger. If you dont like how things are going NOW, speak up and do something. Join the NAACP, write to congressman, start your own organization. Use education, not anger.

0 Replies

jpinMilwaukee wrote:

Two questions:

Who knocked you down?

If you could have what ever you wanted to make things "equal" what would it be?

It's called an analogy. The entity that has been knocked down is black people. The question is not the details, but in the principle. Why argue detail when one cannot even agree on the principle or reparations.

0 Replies

look up

0 Replies

shewolfnm wrote:

Noah The African wrote:
shewolfnm wrote:
hmm.. i have a lot to say..
i will be back with it in a minute.

I am salavating with anticipation

then whipe it up because here it is.

I am a black woman.
I am proud to BE a black woman.
I am a black woman married to a WHITE man.
I am proud to BE married to a white man.
I hate this post.
I hate to see a black man screaming about being repressed and fueling an anger twords white people and calling it " educational" .
By demeaning a person because of thier race, and digging into the history of thier race, you are doing exactly what has been done to your ancestors. And if you choose to disrespect what your ancestors fought and died for by fueling racisim today, then so be it.

You were not born with a tree on your back. Dont pretend its there.

I absolutly agree that there is STILL a problem with the way some people treat blacks today. Hands down it is a HUGE problem.

Spouting hatred and anger about it isnt going to get you anywhere.
Do you really think your slave ancestors endured what they did, stood up for thier rights, and took the horrible life abuse that was handed to them so you could sit around and complain about it after freedom was granted?
NO
They endured this stuff so you could go on and be a productive person in society, have a life that wasnt owned by someone else and have PRIDE.
Pride doesnt equal anger.
I understand WHY you are angry and you have the RIGHT to be angry, your family as well as mine were brutilized simply because of thier skin color. Dont perpetuate that behavior by passing on more anger.
The slavery hatred starts with individual people saying enough is enough.

I am also Cherokee.
I am proud to be Cherokee.
Cherokee and all other american indian nations were slaughtered beyond belief ! Over 3.7 MILLION of them were killed in under 100 years. There isnt enough of them left to fight. THere isnt enough of them left to claim what should be thier's. But they realize that enough is enough. Time to stop the hatred and move on. Generations of whites have existed since the murderous pilgrams who slaughtered thier families. Noone points the finger anymore. Peace has begun.

You can not solve histories problems with anger. The one thing anger teaches us is that anger fuels fire.
I am not in any way trying to INVALIDATE your anger. In fact, I feel it as well. But I dont loathe in hatred for things that are out of my control. I can not turn back time and change what happened to generations of MY family, as you cant yours, so do what is IN YOUR POWER and begin now. Peace. Simplicity, acceptance. Not saying accept the pain that was experienced by your ancestors, I am sayig accept the peace that is begining. Dont stop it with anger. If you dont like how things are going NOW, speak up and do something. Join the NAACP, write to congressman, start your own organization. Use education, not anger.

How does anything that you have just written, contradict the validity of what I have written? Does the fact that you are married to a white man change anything? I am sure that I have more than a few white males (the master) lurking in my DNA. What does that fact change? Moreover, not all white people are bad or have all white people ever been bad. However, it never took ALL white people to oppress all the black people in America. Some do the oppression and others do the enabling and get the benefits from those who are proactive.

You are coming at me with emotions. I am demonstrating no emotions in this essay in regards to white people. Yet, you come away with HATE. The hate that you glean is born from your hatred of hearing the truth. You hate to hear what I am saying, regardless of its truth, thusI am promoting hate in those who are ANTI TRUTH.

Just stick to the facts and logic sister....I don't want to hear how you feel or what you feel...save that for operah. I want to hear you logic and reasoning instead.

0 Replies

Well, good luck with all of this.

0 Replies

yeah, agreed jp.

good luck man.
Rolling Eyes

0 Replies

I hear that luck is where preparation meets opportunity. Given the history of racism in America the opportunity will be hard to come by. Thus..luck will not play a role in this.

0 Replies

Quote:

am demonstrating no emotions in this essay in regards to white people. Yet, you come away with HATE. The hate that you glean is born from your hatred of hearing the truth. You hate to hear what I am saying, regardless of its truth, thusI am promoting hate in those who are ANTI TRUTH.

Elitism; arrogance

When will you learn? You seem to base everything off a cavalier elitist view of your oppisition. I (and I doubt many do) no longer care aobut your thought, opinions, or ideas simply because of the arrogance you ROUTINELY demonstrate. When you learn to com back down to Earth and stop acting arrogant one may listen. Until then your ideas are worthless. No, not your ideas, actually they may be meaningful, but you and your presentation are worthless. Learn to debate in a non-cavalier style and one may listen until then leave.

0 Replies

speaking of slavery, some of my best friends are women.

0 Replies

What does slavery have to do with Today?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know