Noah (page 1 post 5) wrote:Well, the fact of the matter is that the precedent has already been set for citizens to assume the debts that are the product of government actions. The fact is that the GOVERNMENT legalized and facilitated the oppression of black people by individuals. This is a government of the people, for the people and by the people and the majority of THOSE PEOPLE that allowed this were WHITE.
I am not expecting white folks to pay reparations
rather; I am simply EXPOSING you all for who you really are. Come on now
do you think that I would think that a people (white folks) who allowed our enslavement for 245 years and who allowed 100 years of apartheid and who frequently still discriminate
would pay reparations? That's laughable. It would assume that I assumed some sort of character shift in white people to the point that they are somehow different from whites in the past. You might not be the racist that knocked me down
but you might be the racist that attempts to keep me from getting up.
Did black people have anything to do with the slave trade at all? Have Black people ever enslaved people? Get off your high horse and realise that people of any ethnicity are capable of horrendous things, things which make slavery seem trivial. this says about as much about my character as a white person as it does about your character as a black one.
Noah(page2 post 2) wrote:When you are dealing with most African Americans....you are dealing with the REACTION to historical white racism. Every action produces a reaction. What would you think is the NATURAL reaction for a people oppressed for nearly 4 centuries based upon their color not being "White", by people who were "white"? Do you think that blacks would now welcome and trust whites with open arms? Thats silly? What you are dealing with in regards to "black racism" is really the reaction of black people to the history of white racism.
White folks (not all) made the bed...now you don't want to lay it it.
Some white people made the bed, and other white people prefer to remake it rather than sleep in it as it is. Where do you find an inconsistency? I gather the bed is not quite to your liking either, so how about joining us in remaking it?
Lets deal with today, what afterefects of slavery do you see lingering around, and what are you suggesting we do about them?
Responding to Bella Dea claiming the abovementioned bed was never hers in the first place:
Noah (page2 post 5) wrote:
Maam...did you create America? Did you fight in any past wars to create Americas freedoms....if not...then why do you figure you get to lay in the bed of the beneifts accrued from others sacrafices? Its there, and I won't hurt anyone by utilising it. You want to lay in the bed of benefits created by others in the past...but you do not want to lay in the bed of liabilities created by others in the past. It seems to me that to follow your logic and reasoning...that you should leave this nation...because most of what it is you did not create...yet...you lay in it.
Hardly comparable, the liabilities assosiated with being born in, say, Uganda would have been endured, and are as we speak.
Would you want to extrapolate the laws of today innto the distant past, and apply benefits and liabilities to the offspring of the assosiated parties? Consider how random that would seem today, considering all the wars and genocides that are documented in history, as well as the intermixing of various ethnic groups. Could you imagine your tax rate being raised five percent in light of the latest archeological dig?
Somtimes when what you inherrit is sufficiently messed up you just need to discard it and start over.
Besides, I think the very idea of hereditary guilt is flawed to begin with, not to mention the generalisations over ethnic groups. I would not want such principles applied in the justice systems.
Noah(page 3, post 2) wrote:First of all I am not trying to change your mind. Again, I would have to make an assumption about your character that would contradict the empirical data from history concerning most, but not all, white folks. It would be counter intuitive for me to assume against empirical evidence. My goal is to simply expose your contradiction and the fact that you are unwilling to address them. One I point them out I am confident in the fact that you are racist in effect
if not intent. I need not your admission or to change your mind.
Nothing of value here, just pointing out to Noah that he is doing the "white folks are evil" act again, exempting every other ethnic group. History makes people in general look bad, case closed.
This irrational singling out of white people is what triggers the "angry black guy" reaction.
Noah (page 3, last post) wrote:The problem with your recommendation is that it "writes off" the effect to black people from past white racism. Actions produce reactions. The effect of white oppression of blacks manifested an aftermath upon black people. If one wants to target the aftermath for correction
then one must target black people. Going "color blind" before the aftermath of color prejudice has been corrected simply preserves the effects of white cooler prejudice. How convenient for white superiority. You do not have to knock me down to stay superior
you just need to keep me from getting up.
It's not a matter of knocking you down or keeping you from getting up, it's a matter of picking you up and pulling you back on your feet. Thats what you are asking. And my question is why should you have higher priority than all the other people who are sitting on their asses trough no fault of their own? Like the guy who's dad was a compulsive gambler, or the guy who's parents were both alcoholic, or the dude over in the corner who was raised by a single mother and is just dirt poor. And how about those black people whos parents managed to scramble back onto their legs? Should they be bypassed in favor of some of the other people or should they still be compensated?
Why should being black be the determining factor as opposed to being in need of help? Why should it matter wether you are underpriviledged because of some long dead peoples past mistreatment or because of some long dead peoples incompetence, or perhaps the incompetence of people who aren't quite dead yet?
Distributing aid on the basis of skincollor is just plain stupid.
