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Could a happily married man cheat?

 
 
mystikmind
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Apr, 2019 08:09 pm
@livinglava,
That's just basic discipline.
I mean, we are all basically animals and animals do whatever they feel like doing and take whatever they feel like taking. And animals respect only strength.... a coyote will not take a meal from a bear, but certainly if he could, he would!
So it should be no surprise, that human beings without discipline, are going to pretty much be just like animals.

Remember back when western society decided to cancel discipline? That's the reason.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2019 09:26 pm
@mystikmind,
mystikmind wrote:

That's just basic discipline.
I mean, we are all basically animals and animals do whatever they feel like doing and take whatever they feel like taking. And animals respect only strength.... a coyote will not take a meal from a bear, but certainly if he could, he would!
So it should be no surprise, that human beings without discipline, are going to pretty much be just like animals.

Remember back when western society decided to cancel discipline? That's the reason.

Different people are different for different reasons. Conscience does exist in some people and urges them to act right even while they are tempted to do otherwise, and even when they think they can get away with it. Conscience even makes people feel guilty and sad while they're doing things that they've convinced themselves are reasonable for whatever reason(s).

Some people empathize with their victim/spouse, while others just see her/him as an adversary to be trumped, or an oppressor to be defied. Some look at the longer term ramifications of what it will be like for their children to look back at their parents' life history and seek explanations for why and how things went the way they did in their parents' relationship.

'Discipline' can describe many things. It can describe the discipline to obey conscience or just to listen to it. It can also describe the discipline to ignore conscience and act in deference to some other authority. It can describe the willpower to resist temptation or the willpower to act on temptation in defiance of morality that has been re-coded as 'primitive religious superstition.' Don't assume modern secular/atheist morality lacks discipline, when it actually is often applying discipline in a way that contradicts traditional morality. Discipline, like other forms of power, can be used for good and/or abused for evil, depending on the sensibilities of the disciplinarian/disciple.
mystikmind
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Apr, 2019 10:22 pm
@livinglava,
That's a good post, i cannot fault anything in that.

I can give a different perspective though... I see discipline as having the ability to be discerning about your emotions. some people are slaves their emotions, they get angry, they lash out, they want something, they take it, They will even allow pride to get in the way of things that can benefit them.... I saw a mom on Dr Phill or something like that crying in tears about the daughter that ran away, and as soon as the daughter came out on stage the mom suddenly changed to "i am the boss of you, do what i say" .... This woman would give her life for her daughter, yet instantly bowing to her pride like a puppet on strings and the daughter just turned and left.

If you have emotional self discipline, you are able to make much better choices in life.

Personally, i am inclined to believe pride is the root of all evil more than anything else!
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2019 05:35 am
@mystikmind,
mystikmind wrote:

That's a good post, i cannot fault anything in that.

I can give a different perspective though... I see discipline as having the ability to be discerning about your emotions. some people are slaves their emotions, they get angry, they lash out, they want something, they take it, They will even allow pride to get in the way of things that can benefit them.... I saw a mom on Dr Phill or something like that crying in tears about the daughter that ran away, and as soon as the daughter came out on stage the mom suddenly changed to "i am the boss of you, do what i say" .... This woman would give her life for her daughter, yet instantly bowing to her pride like a puppet on strings and the daughter just turned and left.

It might not be pride causing her to stand up to her daughter but rather a will to instill humility for the benefit of the daughter. Parents are able to recognize that a child's pridefulness will get them in trouble in life and so they attempt to subdue them. The child is fighting for their pride and autonomy, so they are attacking and resisting the parent in every way possible, trying to bring the parent to the level of the ego as well, i.e. because that weakens the parent's position as disciplinarian.

Ultimately for people to choose positive discipline, they have to overcome ego, but when they don't want to, they try to provoke other disciplinarians into ego/pride-defense in order to neutralize their humility as a disciplinarian/servant. For discipline to work and be good, both disciplinarian and disciple have to be humbled in pursuit of something beyond ego; otherwise they will just keep pulling each other back down and either can ultimately undermine the other by teasing out the ego/pride and/or allowing their own ego/pride to come out. At that point, one or the other can implore the other to cooperate for the sake of the greater good, but you can only implore cooperation and if the other prefers to resist cooperation, they can continue to do so and frustrate the whatever efforts the other is investing in achieving constructive discipline.


Quote:
If you have emotional self discipline, you are able to make much better choices in life.

Personally, i am inclined to believe pride is the root of all evil more than anything else!

Pride is at the core of all sin, but in a sense it is the least harmful sin because it doesn't have direct impact the way sins like stealing, killing, lying/dishonesty, etc. do. Pride may help cause and/or feed on adultery and other sexual sins, but lust is there too. Add envy, greed, etc. and you get a complex of sins, all of which reflect and feed into the flames of pride, but I'm not sure why you would call pride "the root of all evil more than anything else."
mystikmind
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Apr, 2019 06:29 pm
@livinglava,
A wise parent encourages the growing independence of a teenager, because your supposed to be teaching them to become an independent adult, not a lap dog that does what it is told. This mistake so many parents make.
I believe it comes down to respect, if you show respect to your teenagers, then they will respect you in return and will actually listen to what you say! (not to say there will never be circumstances that will mess with that).

Pride is the root of all evil because it is the one thing that can counteract reason, it can counteract self preservation, it can even counteract love! And remember Satan, what was it again that made him fall??? Need i say more?
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2019 05:37 am
@mystikmind,
mystikmind wrote:

A wise parent encourages the growing independence of a teenager, because your supposed to be teaching them to become an independent adult, not a lap dog that does what it is told. This mistake so many parents make.

It's very hard to learn to think independently without harming yourself due to what you don't yet (fully) understand. The Bible actually explains it really well in the story of Adam & Eve where they receive a warning not to do something that will harm/kill them but then they get tempted by the idea that it won't really harm/kill them and the only reason their father warned them was because he doesn't want them to become independent like he is. As a result, they end up dying and living in enmity with God.

So we can explain things to children and they may or may not understand, but we should tell them that when they make the choice to dismiss warnings about what will harm them, there is nothing we can do to protect them from the natural consequences of their actions. The body is very resilient in healing, but certain kinds of damage build up over time. The ideal would be to transmit all the wisdom you have built up as a parent to your children, and then have them go on building on that wisdom, but pride makes that difficult as children get the urge to establish themselves as something different from their parents, which they are really just a biological continuation of.

Quote:
I believe it comes down to respect, if you show respect to your teenagers, then they will respect you in return and will actually listen to what you say! (not to say there will never be circumstances that will mess with that).

It is good to respect all things, living and non-living. That doesn't mean it's not good to discipline and change them when they can benefit from it, though. Children may or may not listen depending on what is going on inside their heads and hearts (and other parts of their body). You can't manipulate them into listening with respect or anything else. It is up to them to make the right choice or suffer natural (and sometimes artificial) consequences.

Quote:
Pride is the root of all evil because it is the one thing that can counteract reason, it can counteract self preservation, it can even counteract love! And remember Satan, what was it again that made him fall??? Need i say more?

Pride is not the only thing that does or can 'counteract' these other things, as you describe it. Greed, envy, lust, attachment/addiction, laziness, etc. bend the mind to their will and put walls of emotion between the ego and reason. Pride is related to all of them, but they are also related to each other in similar ways. Sin begets sin, so to speak. How can you by greedy without envying others who have what you want? How can you be lustful without getting attached/addicted to the object(s) of your lust? How can you be lazy without being attached/addicted to whatever leisure activities keep you from being bored when you're avoiding work you should be doing?

Pride certainly hovers near the axis of the wheel of sin, i.e. because whenever conscience sheds light on moral failings, pride is there to stand up to it and insist on self-righteousness, cultural tradition, or whatever other rationalization can be cultivated for shirking reason.

mystikmind
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2019 05:00 pm
@livinglava,
"It's very hard to learn to think independently without harming yourself due to what you don't yet (fully) understand."

All this applies more to younger children, not teenagers.

1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways."

And how old were people in bible times when they became adults??

Don't be fooled, teenagers are ALLOT smarter than most people give them credit for. And its never a lack of wisdom that makes teenagers do foolish things, it is the choice to disregard wisdom that you are seeing. And learning the consequences of disregarding wisdom is not something you can teach them - because they already know what you have to say about it. Unfortunately some things they have to learn for themselves.
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2019 05:41 pm
@mystikmind,
mystikmind wrote:

"It's very hard to learn to think independently without harming yourself due to what you don't yet (fully) understand."

All this applies more to younger children, not teenagers.

I guess you don't know any teenagers, nor have you ever been one yourself.

Teenagers are in the earliest stages of experimenting with the things that get adults killed and jailed or worse.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways."

And how old were people in bible times when they became adults??

That quote doesn't refer to anything having to do with age. It refers to maturity; i.e. giving up immaturity. Today there is a culture of youth and relishing in immaturity that prevents many people from even recognizing immaturity when they see it. They have been taught that as long as a person has status and money, they must be mature and right-minded.

Quote:
Don't be fooled, teenagers are ALLOT smarter than most people give them credit for. And its never a lack of wisdom that makes teenagers do foolish things, it is the choice to disregard wisdom that you are seeing. And learning the consequences of disregarding wisdom is not something you can teach them - because they already know what you have to say about it. Unfortunately some things they have to learn for themselves.

I'm afraid you are right about that; but as I said before, the story of Adam & Eve is so relevant, because they had the opportunity to heed warnings and avoid the consequences of bad choices, yet they chose to disregard the warnings and find out for themselves.

People who have been warned can't argue that they didn't have the choice to avoid the bad consequences. If they are tempted to make the wrong choices and they succumb to the temptation, cause and effect are not avoidable. If you choose to drink deadly poison, you're going to die. Your failing organs won't understand that it was because you were a teenager experimenting with decision-making.
mystikmind
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Apr, 2019 06:21 pm
@livinglava,
"I guess you don't know any teenagers, nor have you ever been one yourself."

Then you would be guessing wrong.

"That quote doesn't refer to anything having to do with age. It refers to maturity; i.e. giving up immaturity. Today there is a culture of youth and relishing in immaturity that prevents many people from even recognizing immaturity when they see it. They have been taught that as long as a person has status and money, they must be mature and right-minded."

Absolutely! and here is where we come back to the subject of the OP... and my point on the failure of modern society to teach discipline!!

You see, you would not have all those reckless teenagers running about if they had been taught proper discipline at an earlier age and then properly guided into adulthood.

Edit: teenagers that grow up with insufficient emotional discipline to, for example, not cheat!
livinglava
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2019 03:02 pm
@mystikmind,
mystikmind wrote:

"I guess you don't know any teenagers, nor have you ever been one yourself."

Then you would be guessing wrong.

"That quote doesn't refer to anything having to do with age. It refers to maturity; i.e. giving up immaturity. Today there is a culture of youth and relishing in immaturity that prevents many people from even recognizing immaturity when they see it. They have been taught that as long as a person has status and money, they must be mature and right-minded."

Absolutely! and here is where we come back to the subject of the OP... and my point on the failure of modern society to teach discipline!!

You see, you would not have all those reckless teenagers running about if they had been taught proper discipline at an earlier age and then properly guided into adulthood.

Edit: teenagers that grow up with insufficient emotional discipline to, for example, not cheat!

Some people are only disciplined in how they behave outwardly. Inside they lack morality, conscience, empathy, willpower, true righteousness, and other foundations for maturity.
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