The Liberal obsession with Nazis. It's not good for you.

@oralloy,

🚮 Sorry, still too vague. You must be a self-hating Jew yourself...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

🚮 Sorry, still too vague.

Nonsense. I was very clear in what I said.

Olivier5 wrote:

You must be a self-hating Jew yourself...

That's rather a rather odd accusation on multiple fronts. My relentless defense of Israel makes me the exact opposite of someone who makes untrue accusations against them. And since when did non-practicing Catholics with a strong agnostic streak count as Jews?

2 Replies

@oralloy,

I don't need to explain myself when I accuse someone of being a self-hating Jew. I can be very VAGUE, you know? It's like I'm throwing **** in your general direction, in a vaguish and palid way...

Looks familiar?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I don't need to explain myself when I accuse someone of being a self-hating Jew.

Perhaps not. But it would be much better if you were factually correct.

Olivier5 wrote:

I can be very VAGUE, you know? It's like I'm throwing **** in your general direction, in a vaguish and palid way...

Vagueness is not the problem. Your problem here is a lack of factual accuracy.

Olivier5 wrote:

Looks familiar?

I'm reminded of the recent kerfuffle when Max accused France of a prosecution that happened in Belgium. You understood the desirability of factual accuracy in that case.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Fact Number One: Bernie Sanders does not hate the State of Israel.

Fact Number Two: Bernie Sanders is not the State of Israel, so even if he hated the State of Israel, which he does not (see Fact Number One), that would mean strictly nothing in terms of hating himself.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Fact Number One: Bernie Sanders does not hate the State of Israel.

He is certainly happy to make outrageous untrue accusations against Israel and then call on people to harm Israel in punishment for the things that he falsely accuses them of.

Olivier5 wrote:

Fact Number Two: Bernie Sanders is not the State of Israel, so even if he hated the State of Israel, which he does not (see Fact Number One), that would mean strictly nothing in terms of hating himself.

"Self Hating Jew" is a term for a Jew who engages in anti-Semitism and/or neo-nazism.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

But so long as they are not lobbing untrue accusations in Israel's direction I think they should be safe from charges of anti-Semitism.

So lobbing factual accusations is okay — good to hear!

But I'm not sure I buy the assumption that "Semitic", "Israeli", and "Jewish" all mean the same thing. Most of the people I know wouldn't buy it either. Hebrew traditions have endured over millennia and the essential qualities of Judaism owe nothing to, and reflect nothing of, the contemporary Israeli state.

2 Replies

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

So lobbing factual accusations is okay — good to hear!

So long as the accusation is fair and not some sort of half-truth, yes.

hightor wrote:

But I'm not sure I buy the assumption that "Semitic", "Israeli", and "Jewish" all mean the same thing. Most of the people I know wouldn't buy it either.

The term anti-Semitism has been used to describe hate and violence directed at Jews for more than a century now.

hightor wrote:

Hebrew traditions have endured over millennia and the essential qualities of Judaism owe nothing to, and reflect nothing of, the contemporary Israeli state.

This does not stop anti-Semites from trying to disguise their hatred by directing their untrue accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews".

2 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

The term anti-Semitism has been used to describe hate and violence directed at Jews for more than a century now.

The formation of the word anti-Semitism is based on linguistic and ethnological distinctions of the late 18th century, in which the term semitism was used to attempt to grasp and devalue the' spirit' of the Semitic peoples in contrast to that of the Indo-European people.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

Self Hating Jew" is a term for a Jew who engages in anti-Semitism and/or neo-nazism.

That describe you to a T, but not Bernie Sanders.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

The term anti-Semitism has been used to describe hate and violence directed at Jews for more than a century now.

Sure, but the term doesn't automatically apply to someone who objects to the policies of the Israeli state.

Quote:

This does not stop anti-Semites from trying to disguise their hatred by directing their untrue accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews".

The charge of "antisemitism" has also been used to malign, castigate, and silence critics of Israel who don't happen to hate Jews. This is not some sort of half-truth either.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

That describe you to a T,

A non-practicing Catholic with an agnostic streak is not properly referred to as a Jew. Someone who defends Israel is not properly referred to as someone who makes false accusations against Israel.

Olivier5 wrote:

but not Bernie Sanders.

That Sanders guy is of the Jewish faith. He makes horrible false accusations against Israel and calls on people to harm Israel as punishment for what he falsely accuses them of.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Sure, but the term doesn't automatically apply to someone who objects to the policies of the Israeli state.

It applies when the supposed "objection" is just a typical false accusation of imaginary crimes like anti-Semites make against Jews, just directed at Israel instead.

hightor wrote:

The charge of "antisemitism" has also been used to malign, castigate, and silence critics of Israel who don't happen to hate Jews. This is not some sort of half-truth either.

If they are making horrible false accusations against Israel, they should be maligned and castigated. I'm not in favor of silencing though. Let them speak, and then challenge their hate.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

It's not a crime to be Jewish, you know? Stop rejecting your Jewish identity. Stop hating yourself...

Bernie never made "horrible false accusations against Israel". Stop spreading mindless hatred for Jews, please.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Foofie wrote:
You surely know that there are many political views by Jewish Israelis. If other Israelis accuse them of being anti-Semitic it's just in an attempt to have the moral high ground, in my opinion.

What if the person was called an anti-Semite because they falsely accused Israel of committing horrible crimes?

Hypotheticals waste our time, most of the time, in my opinion.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

,,, And since when did non-practicing Catholics with a strong agnostic streak count as Jews?

The way you stand up for Israel, I'd say you are a very practicing Catholic, just not into the ritual.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Hebrew traditions have endured over millennia and the essential qualities of Judaism owe nothing to, and reflect nothing of, the contemporary Israeli state.

Well, if you said the Greeks, you'd be correct. The Jews were Hellenized, and that gave us the story of Chanukah.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

...Stop spreading mindless hatred for Jews, please.

Being Jewish, I believe I understand the human condition, and many non-Jews cannot feel comfortable with Jews, since Jews do not always feel comfortable with them. The difference is that Jews do not hate usually for being a cause of discomfort. However, it seems many non-Jews reciprocate with antipathy for being the cause of discomfort. I believe that many non-Jews have a more fragile level of self-esteem than many Jews and can't see that the Jewish desire to be reclusive is not based on anathema, but discomfort with a culture that has some pretty alien ways.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It's not a crime to be Jewish, you know? Stop rejecting your Jewish identity. Stop hating yourself...

It's a little weird for you to keep calling me a Jew despite knowing it's not true.

I'm a bit at a loss how to respond. While your statement is factually untrue, if I rush to deny your statement it makes it sound like Jewishness is something bad.

It reminds me of the time when people used "gay" as an insult. If someone called me gay and I rushed to deny it as if it were a horrible charge, how would that make a gay person feel? I remember one time when someone on the left used "gay" to describe gun rights advocates and I had a horrible dilemma how to respond. (I still see that guy's posts now and then. Happily with age comes wisdom. He's now a right-winger.)

Olivier5 wrote:

Bernie never made "horrible false accusations against Israel".

That is incorrect. He clearly did.

Olivier5 wrote:

Stop spreading mindless hatred for Jews, please.

I'm doing the exact opposite of what you claim.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Hypotheticals waste our time, most of the time, in my opinion.

Every single time I've seen a Jewish Israeli called an anti-Semite, it was expressly because that person had just made an outrageous untrue accusation against Israel.

0 Replies

The Liberal obsession with Nazis. It's not good for you.

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know