27
   

The Statue Wars Begin

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 02:58 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

If we are going to start a war of removing statues - I suggest that we start with this one..

http://www.timothylutts.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Bewitched-Statue-Elizabeth-Montgomery.jpg

On all levels this is offensive.


Are you being serious?

It's a silly attempt at humor, but offensive?

Is it anymore offensive than the commerce the town of Salem promotes and enjoys thanks to an ugly history that is hundreds of years old?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 03:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
That liberals are attacking the Bewitched statue as offensive is hilarious.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be a liberal.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 04:13 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:


Despite the original intent of some of them, I don't think these statues currently suppress anyone's free speech, but if they are erected or endorsed by the State and positioned on public land, they are not expressions of free speech they are expressions of the government's views. This fact is unchanged by how many people agree with the expression or whether it can be considered benign or malignant. As such they are not deserving of any consideration based on the First Amendment, and raising it either in defense or opposition of them is a red herring.


Hey, thanks. That's a thought I had never considered.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 06:08 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That liberals are attacking the Bewitched statue as offensive is hilarious.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be a liberal.



I don't know if linkat is a "liberal" and I still think she was kidding so that leaves izzy. I can understand why you might be ashamed to include him in your clan, but he seems to be the Lone Rager on this one so you probably cut the rest of your kind some slack Wink
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 07:12 pm
As there are obviously insensitive clods here expressing their indignation, I think it will be useful to point out that trivializing what was an horrific and brutal act against basically defenseless women is what people object to. Finny defends the Montgomery statue on the basis of all the other tasteless dreck in Salem. That's similar to a tu quoque fallacy--the fallacy in which one excuses one's own failings by alleging failings in one's accuser. In this case, he attempts to excuse one failing because it is just one of so many others.

That statue, which I hadn't seen, is just one of many tawdry aspects of Salem's attempt to exploit that tragedy. Of course, there are many conservatives who object to any change. Others just trivialize the event further by saying it is no big deal. Max has to be the most persistent hater of women at this site. It does not surprise me that he objects to the removal of the statue.

And here we have the crux of the conservative hysteria that Finn and Max are involved in. (As far as Max calling himself a liberal--don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.) No one has publicly made an issue of this. Linkat has simply pointed out probably the most solid form of the crass insensitivity in which Salem indulges, hoping to profit. I agree with her. Neither Linkat nor I have been agitating to remove this statue--I would certainly applaud it. I truly love the phony outrage in which conservatives so often specialize.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 07:27 pm
Below is an image of the plinths, or benches as some call them, on which the names of some of the witch trial victims have been inscribed. It is about the only reference to the event in Salem which is in good taste.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/31/0a/c8310ade5df1638a3cd5a7e1f9e6acdb--salem-witch-trials-grave-memorials.jpg

Proctor's Ledge, southeast of Salem town, has been identified as the execution site of some of the women. This memorial has been erected to honor them:

https://streetsofsalem.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/week-worst-day1.jpg?w=490

As long as there are brutal, don't give a damn about anyone else conservatives around, and more importantly to the chamber of commerce, slack-jawed yokels who can be relied upon to gawk and spend a few bucks, **** like that Montgomery statue will be tolerated.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 07:39 pm
In case you wondered just how far this hysteria can go:

ESPN Pulls Asian-American Sports Announcer from Covering UVA Football Game Because His Name is Robert Lee

No this is not a story from The Onion, ESPN really did this.

Aaaand they released this statement

Quote:
“We collectively made the decision with Robert to switch games as the tragic events in Charlottesville were unfolding, simply because of the coincidence of his name. In that moment it felt right to all parties. It’s a shame that this is even a topic of conversation and we regret that who calls play-by-play for a football game has become an issue.”


I bet they consider it a shame that their idiocy became public and just who made it an issue?

Gonna blame Trump for this?

Unless a host of woke snowflakes called ESPN to complain of the Asian-American Lee calling the game, who but the left-wing sports network that introduced Keith Olberman to America could have made it an issue?

Dana Milbank of the Washington Post turned his snark on the snowflakes in a column today

WaPo

Quote:
University of Houston to change the name of its Calhoun Lofts dorm because it shares a name with the 19th-century vice president and white supremacist John C. Calhoun, even though, a university spokeswoman told the Houston Chronicle, “the residence hall was not named in recognition of John C. Calhoun” but a nearby street.


Quote:
In Atlanta, likewise, protesters last week attempted to tear down that city’s Peace Monument, apparently mistaking it for a Confederate shrine. The sculpture was erected to honor those who worked for reunification during Reconstruction.


Quote:
New York Mayor Bill de Blasio announced a 90-day review of any statues on city property that could be “symbols of hate.” New Yorkers are now taking aim at the Christopher Columbus statue in Columbus Circle and the tomb of Ulysses S. Grant. (Grant? What did he do other than win the Civil War for the North and the Abolitionist/)

Some object to the Theodore Roosevelt statue outside the Museum of Natural History, (Because he hunted and killed black bears?) and others suggest the name “New York” itself may have to go because the Duke of York was a slave trader. New York chef Tom Colicchio dropped the name of his new restaurant because it was named after a building that was named after 19th-century publishers who had racist views.

There’s a movement in Massachusetts to rename Boston’s Faneuil Hall, cradle of the Revolution, because the 1742 structure was built by a slave trader and owner, Peter Faneuil. Residents of Philadelphia and Seattle, not to be left out, want to remove statues of, respectively, Frank Rizzo and Vladimir Lenin. (Well that's a twist! Must be a Neo-Nazi group or else it's been rumored that Lenin enjoyed Minstrel Shows when he was in exile in Western Europe)

Some may see this as a pell-mell rush to replicate George Orwell’s “1984,” in which “every statue and street and building has been renamed.” But I don’t think it goes far enough (Hold on, hold on. He's kidding about it not going far enough).


Compared to this lunacy, razing the Jefferson Memorial and the Washington Monument seem rational. I'm telling you, if there's another incident involving white supremacists, the good people of Washington State will be holding a referendum on changing the name of their home.

I suggest "Pacifica" or "Rainbonia" but the area was home to the Nuth Chal Nuth, Squamish, Makah, Kuaspel, Quinalt, Methow, Chehaus, Cowutz, Palus, Coeur D'alene, Chinok and Walla Walla Indian tribes so there must be thousands of good choices including the Squamish translation of "Land of the Thugs in Black Masks" or the Kuaspel version of "Place Where It Rains All The Freaking Time" or even the Nuth Chal Nuthian phrase for "Home of Overpriced Coffee"

So tell me again how the Statue Wars are all about disdain for rebel traitors.

You can't make this **** up.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 07:47 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
As there are obviously insensitive clods here expressing their indignation, I think it will be useful to point out that trivializing what was an horrific and brutal act against basically defenseless women is what people object to.


Finn, is Setanta joking? This overhyped hysteria over a dozen "defenseless" White women being brutalized over 320 years ago seems like a joke... but he seems so serious.

Please Finn.... is this supposed to be funny? Because I find it ironically funny.

If he is serious, maybe it is more funny given that he is overlooking the racial segregation in this colony, on stolen land, that had a role in Slavery. Of course attacking "defenseless women" has always been hyped up... the tragic death of 14 White Women trumps the deaths of thousands of slaves I suppose.

maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 07:59 pm
@maxdancona,

0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 08:51 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
That is ridiculous and I'm sorry it happened.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 08:59 pm
So they make a stupid call and remove a man for coincidence of name and every liberal in the universe is guilty of making the call.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 09:01 pm
What we have here is a mass perversion of the tu quoque fallacy. If one thing is bad and we don't object, we are alleged to be at fault for objecting to anything else. It's typical conservative bullshit.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 09:03 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

That liberals are attacking the Bewitched statue as offensive is hilarious.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be a liberal.

Oh please. They are lunatics in every and any group of people. You might as well be ashamed to be a human being...
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 09:39 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
As there are obviously insensitive clods here expressing their indignation, I think it will be useful to point out that trivializing what was an horrific and brutal act against basically defenseless women is what people object to.


Finn, is Setanta joking? This overhyped hysteria over a dozen "defenseless" White women being brutalized over 320 years ago seems like a joke... but he seems so serious.

Please Finn.... is this supposed to be funny? Because I find it ironically funny.

If he is serious, maybe it is more funny given that he is overlooking the racial segregation in this colony, on stolen land, that had a role in Slavery. Of course attacking "defenseless women" has always been hyped up... the tragic death of 14 White Women trumps the deaths of thousands of slaves I suppose.




No, he's not joking but who cares?

Everyone, at one time or the other, has been the target of his cranky-assed belligerence, even the worms who join forces with him when he launches one of his bilious attacks against someone they don't like.

Every newcomer to A2K get a bitter taste of his welcome and he's probably responsible for more newbies thinking "WTF?!" and leaving never to return, then the rest of us combined.

He just went off on Hightor in another thread and, true to form, by the time Hightor got tired of the exchange and disengaged, Setanta was complaining about how rude and snotty Hightor was. It's ironic but not in the least bit funny.

For a while there, after he had waddled back into his cave to suck out the marrow of old bone litter, it was kind of nice but apparently, he could only stand his own company for so long and now he's back as cranky and nasty as he ever was.

He would angrily argue with a stump if he thought the thing didn't show him the proper amount of respect for his brilliance, but he couldn't give two shites for the Salem witches. He just found what he saw was a good opportunity to attack two of his all time favorites, me and you, and so he's playing the ogre with a big heart who has the compassion for the poor women killed for being witches hundreds of years ago, that heartless clods like us lack, but he's also playing the White Knight for linkat as well. Talk about irony, would you be surprised if there was a thread somewhere in the archives wherein the old boil took off on her too?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 09:44 pm
@ossobucotemp,
It is ridiculous, but there's plenty more where that came from. You have to wonder though just how in agreement with ESPN management Robert Lee was. Apparently, he has refused to discuss the matter with any reporter who has called him. You can understand why though. He works part-time at ESPN doing something he loves. I'm sure he doesn't want to do anything to kill the gig, so even if he thought it was a ridiculous as it was, I can understand him staying mum.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 09:53 pm
@edgarblythe,
Geeze edgar. Do you really think that? I wouldn't be that harsh on your fellow liberals. After all, it clearly was just the ridiculous suits at ESPN who made the decision. They didn't have a call in vote from liberal viewers to decide whether or not Robert Lee would call the game.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Aug, 2017 12:18 am
Momma Mia! Big Bird DeBlasio is Swooping Down on Christopher Columbus!

From the article

Quote:
When the going gets stupid, the stupid turn pro....a vandal in Baltimore took a sledgehammer to what is believed to be the oldest Columbus monument in the United States, a 225-year-old work whose cornerstone was laid in 1792. For maximum publicity value, the vandal or an associate brazenly posted the video of his handiwork to YouTube as he gleefully narrated.


Quote:
As George Orwell saw it, in 1984: “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”


Quote:
New York City in 2017 is a one-party place where high elected officials literally parade down Fifth Avenue next to terrorists who were convicted of shocking crimes in the 1970s, but where an inanimate hunk of metal commemorating Christopher Columbus that has stood in the city for 125 years is declared a menace to society. The hard-left city-council speaker Melissa Mark-Viverito — who last made headlines when she appeared next to convicted terrorist Oscar Lopez Rivera on a float at the head of the Puerto Rican Day Parade in June — called for taking down the Christopher Columbus statue...


Quote:
Is (Big Bird)de Blasio bothering to ask the people he supposedly represents whether they want statues ripped off their perches? Of course not.


Quote:
Every governor in the country should be ordering up legislation like North Carolina’s to bar cities and the extremists who wield power in them from removing any more longstanding historical markers without state approval
.

Quote:
it is the duty of the (more) conservative party to preserve history and heed the people, who have said again and again by wide margins in polls that they do not want historical statues ripped down.

Quote:
The Lincoln Memorial has already been vandalized and a spokesperson for Mark-Viverito called for Grant’s Tomb to be put under review, citing the general’s anti-Semitic streak. That one is a national monument, not a city one, so it may be safe from Mark-Viverito’s clutches for now.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Aug, 2017 12:21 am
Finn is really hilarious. He's been a vicious son of a bitch almost from the day he arrived. He hadn't been here very long, and was almost unknown to me when he offered to kick my dog, cultured, educated, thoughtful conservative commentator that he is. He began calling me "Pooch," a habit which I believe he still displays. There's a real pot and kettle problem here.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Aug, 2017 04:44 am
@Setanta,
.

I remember Finn's fake "Heart Surgery" , which he apparently made up as some kind of debating point and which turned on him when people , despite his pronouncements about them being evil liberals, had only good wishes for his recovery and some even were praying for his health.
I find that he , too quickly, takes offense in anything when he engages someone who disagrees with him.Then he takes his side of a debate to new heights of irascibility .

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Aug, 2017 05:06 am
@farmerman,
He's all about polemics--he just comes here to attack people or ideas. You can see it in his style of writing. So, for example, he has accused me of being a "white knight" for Linkat. She doesn't need that kind of help from anyone here. I've been to Salem, but hadn't seen that tawdry statue. So I asked her about it, and expressed my opinion on the tawdriness of the place. It's called a conversation--something with which I suspect Finny is unfamiliar.

He doesn't play word games, he doesn't contribute to music or art threads, he doesn't contribute to joke threads--he's just here to forward his phony-baloney pose as the thinking man's conservative, and to attack people and things. In that regard, he can be mildly entertaining--on the same level as watching paint dry.
0 Replies
 
 

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