29
   

Why I left the Democratic Party

 
 
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:02 pm
@maporsche,
Why should they get fast tracked, just because they have been here for a long time? That isn't how immigration works, you don't get to break the law and then expect special laws be written to benefit you and only you.
camlok
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:11 pm
@Baldimo,
That is exactly how it worked for a lot of the history during the American and Canadian genocide against native peoples.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:14 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Why should they get fast tracked, just because they have been here for a long time? That isn't how immigration works, you don't get to break the law and then expect special laws be written to benefit you and only you.


We have a difference of opinion on this. I'm not going to convince you that I'm right. But here is my POV on this.

The people have grown up in America since infant-hood in some cases. Small children and babies were not aware or intending to break the law. They have been raised and are as American as anyone. They have passed background check and are law abiding people.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 03:16 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
In 3 weeks, when CHIP has been funded


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/government-to-reopen-after-senate-democrats-back-down.html

Quote:
It is possible that another and more definitive confrontation will arrive just before the funding in this bill expires. If so, Republicans will enter the next potential shutdown crisis with their chief hostage, CHIP, having already been released. A very large political wild card is whether by then Democrats can make the fight “about” Dreamer protections that sizable majorities of Americans support, rather than their use of a shutdown as leverage. The intervening period could also provide multiple opportunities for conflict within the GOP over immigration policy, and for more strange and erratic behavior from the White House.


it has the potential to be quite a wild ride
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:09 pm
@camlok,
The natives didn't need much help, they had already been doing a good job of killing and enslaving each over well before people came over from Europe. This fantasy that the navties were all peaceful and only became violent after the white man came is absurd.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:15 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
We have a difference of opinion on this. I'm not going to convince you that I'm right. But here is my POV on this.

Opinion doesn't matter, an illegal immigrant is still an illegal immigrant, it doesn't matter when or how old they are when they came to the US. How does the law grant special allowances for such a small group and their families? Shouldn't the law be applied to all?

Quote:
The people have grown up in America since infant-hood in some cases. Small children and babies were not aware or intending to break the law. They have been raised and are as American as anyone. They have passed background check and are law abiding people.

Once again the law doesn't make a distinction. Their parents knew what they were doing when they brought their children here, they didn't care about the laws and ignored them. If they didn't care about our laws, why should we change the laws to suite their needs? I ask again, shouldn't the law apply to all or we only concerned with people who will vote for the DNC?

You have nothing but an emotional argument in this. Nothing in the law backs your opinion. You would rather play the empathy card, which you are using as a weapon, to pass laws.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:27 pm
New Yorker
In the end, it took two weeks for Washington to agree on how it will fund the government for the next three weeks. When the resolution that ended the government shutdown came, shortly after noon, the Senate Democrats tried to claim it as a victory of sorts. The extra concession that they had won from Mitch McConnell, in a weekend of haggling, was the Republican leader’s declaration of his “intention” to allow a debate and a vote next month on the permanent status of the Dreamers, the hundreds of thousands of undocumented Americans brought here as children. “Now there is a real pathway to get a bill on the floor and through the Senate,” the Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, said, after beginning his address by pausing to swig some seltzer. “It is a good solution, and I will vote for it.” His deputy, Dick Durbin, who spoke immediately thereafter, praised a bipartisan working group that had helped to forge the compromise, and said that he knew enough Republican senators sympathetic to the Dreamers to have confidence that the chamber could reach an accommodation. “Now comes the test, the real test. Of whether we can get this done. Whether we can be the Senate again,” Durbin said.
Is the Senate, though, the real test? Over this long weekend, with the House having passed its bill and the President absent, it often seemed that way. When McConnell spoke this morning, he outlined his intention and said, “This immigration bill will have a level playing field at the outset, and an amendment process that’s fair to all sides.” Then he repeated himself, word for word, and gesture for gesture, so that Democrats could not miss the offer, and television viewers wondered if there had been some technical glitch. The question, of course, is whether the Democrats can really trust McConnell, who, during November’s tax debates, had won the votes of wavering Republicans by promising extra funding for Medicaid and a speedy vote on immigration. He got the votes; he has not yet delivered on his promises.
Even if McConnell does bring such a measure to the floor, and even if the upper chamber does vote to protect the Dreamers, the Senate alone cannot make law. The House has consistently taken a harder line on immigration, and its Republican leaders have made no promises to the Democrats. Neither has the White House, and, after the weekend, we know something more about where the President stands when it comes to making an immigration deal.
The notion that the President and the Democrats might be able to find common ground hinged heavily on personality. Trump himself is ideologically erratic, the theory ran, obsessed with media approval and cutting deals. Schumer is, like the President, an outer-borough man of a certain age, transactional to his core. Their summit on Friday operated as a test of the possibility. Schumer came prepared to offer the President some funding for a border wall. Over cheeseburgers, Schumer believed that they reached an outline for an agreement. Hours later, the White House chief of staff, John Kelly, called Schumer and declared the outline “too liberal,” and the President retreated from negotiations all weekend. The Presidency is bigger than a personality—even this one.
Today, Schumer had one negotiating partner, McConnell, and he took the available offer: six years’ worth of funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program and the promise of a Senate vote for the Dreamers, in exchange for an agreement to fund the government for three more weeks. Almost immediately, the Republicans (with glee) and the progressive left (with outrage) insisted that Schumer had “blinked” or “caved.” “That’s what they do,” the progressive Democratic congressman Luis Gutiérrez said, of the Senate Democrats. The White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said, “We are pleased to see Senator Schumer accept the deal that President Trump put on the table at the beginning.” That overstated the White House’s role, but got the state of play right. Schumer had discovered the limits of his party’s influence and power.
This afternoon, the prospects for the Dreamers look worse: the immediate crisis of the shutdown has passed, the President no longer seems a plausible ally, and their status has not been secured. Republicans privately griped for the past week about the inconstancy of the White House, but this morning it was Schumer who was left complaining about the Presidential chaos. The Dreamers’ hopes, and his, had rested on a version of the President that did not materialize. Washington, with the 2018 elections on the horizon, is again in a partisan lock. It would have taken more than one cheeseburger to break it.

Benjamin Wallace-Wells began contributing to The New Yorker in 2006, and joined the magazine as a staff writer in 2015. He writes mainly about American politics and society.Read more »
More:Chuck SchumerMitch McConnellDonald TrumpDemocratic PartyRepublican PartyGovernment Shutdown

0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:49 pm
@Baldimo,
Well laws get passed when the majority believe that it’s a good idea to pass a law. All I need is a majority, even if it’s an emotional one.

Most laws are made because there was no legal precedent before such law. That’s kinda how laws work.

When republicans and democrats vote for legal status for these people and pass a law granting that, are you going to claim that the law has no standing because it wasn’t previously law?

I’m strongly against only making democrat voters legal. Their political opinion should have no say in their legal status.

I don’t understand your point here...
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:49 pm
@revelette1,
This may be the first time ever you acceded that you believed what McConnell has said.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:51 pm
@maporsche,
I will give you credit for sticking with your tribe, but you really are too smart to keep up with such nonsense
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 04:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I, again, bow down to you and present my belly in an act of subservience.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 05:02 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Well let’s get passed when the majority believe that it’s a good idea to pass a law. All I need is a majority, even if it’s an emotional one.

Do you really think laws based on emotions are good things?

Quote:
Most laws are made because there was no legal precedent before such law. That’s kinda how laws work.

That sounds like word salad. I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I've said that there is no law that backs your position for allowing dreamers, illegal immigrants, to have legal status. Your reasoning for them to stay isn't backed by the law, meaning DACA wasn't law and Obama violated the Constitution and stepped outside his bounds of power in signing anything related to DACA.

Quote:
I’m strongly against only making democrat voters legal. Their political opinion should have no say in their legal status.

That's funny. The only reason DACA exists is to bribe illegal immigrants to be DNC voters.

Quote:
I don’t understand your point here...

Of course you don't, you don't think Dreamers should follow the existing laws of the US. It's a disconnect between when thinking legal vs illegal immigration.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 05:08 pm
@Baldimo,
I think that emotions, like disgust, when injustices are being proposed on a group of people, can lead to the strong desire by the majority in power to create good laws. I certainly believe that.

I think that emotions, like sympathy, can allow a person to see when our laws are lacking in compassion and kindness that he majority of Americans want our government to have. I certainly believe that.

I also believe the emotions should be balanced by reality and that laws need to draw lines somewhere and that those decisions can be very difficult, but need to be made.

There are certainly laws that have been passed that have granted legal status on previously illegal immigrants. Ronald Reagan signed such a law in the 80’s. Commonly they are referred to as amnesty.

We agree that DACA is not law....yet.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 05:29 pm
Andy Borowitz

Schumer Confident That McConnell Will Eventually Return His Lunch Money
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 05:32 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
I think that emotions, like disgust, when injustices are being proposed on a group of people, can lead to the strong desire by the majority in power to create good laws. I certainly believe that.

Injustice? The same laws that apply to all illegal immigrants apply to Dreamers, there is no injustice and they haven't been picked out of the crowd for extra enforcement. The law applies equally to all illegal immigrants.

Quote:
I think that emotions, like sympathy, can allow a person to see when our laws are lacking in compassion and kindness that he majority of Americans want our government to have. I certainly believe that.

Our laws are not lacking in compassion, Lady Justice doesn't have one eye open to compassion. I don't want any of the Dreamers deported and support legal residence but not citizenship. The last amnesty didn't solve the issue and a new one won't either.

Quote:
There are certainly laws that have been passed that have granted legal status on previously illegal immigrants. Ronald Reagan signed such a law in the 80’s. Commonly they are referred to as amnesty.

You need to go back and find out what the Reagan amnesty was all about. Congress passed a law and Reagan signed it. It was discovered that they missed a group of people who should have been included in the law that was passed. It was suppose to end our illegal immigration problem, but it has since tripled in the last 30 years. A pathway for 800,000 out of 15 million illegal immigrants is all politics and will solve no issues. Without a way to actually control who comes here to the US, any "changes" to the law will fail in the long run.

Quote:
We agree that DACA is not law....yet.

Obama violated his Constitutional powers when he did granted protections and status to Dreamers. It was a BS political ploy, just like the DNC shutting down the govt., it will backfire come Nov.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 05:45 pm
@Baldimo,
Like I said before we started. We are not going to agree. I’ve said what I intended to say.

Give it three weeks, there will be a new law that makes the previously illegal, legal. If you want to call that ‘unprecedented’ then feel free. Neither I, nor the vast majority of American citizens, or the majority of the lawmakers in congress, nor the President will care about that opinion once the pen is put to paper.

Once these people are legal residents they will qualify for the citizenship process like all other legal immigrants.

Citizens vote for lawmakers. Lawmakers pass laws the majority wants (usually). The reasons the majority wants something is often interesting.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2018 05:59 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Lawmakers pass laws the majority wants (usually).


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/19/politics/cnn-poll-shutdown-trump-immigration-daca/index.html

Quote:
On its own, the DACA program remains broadly popular, with 84% saying they would like to see it continue, including 72% of Republicans, 82% of independents and a near-unanimous 96% of Democrats.


Almost two-thirds (63%) say dealing with the program should be an extremely or very high priority for Congress, narrowly ahead of the 61% who say the same about passing a long-term funding bill to avoid future shutdowns.


Both DACA and funding the government, however, fall well below CHIP on the priority scale. Eighty percent overall call the Children's Health Insurance Program an extremely or very important priority for Congress, including 91% of Democrats and 70% of Republicans.


CHIP - yessish
long-term funding - no
DACA - no

it will be interesting who gains from this in the polls
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Jan, 2018 04:25 pm
@maporsche,
Not necessary mapo but you might be in less jeopardy if you came down off that high horse.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Jan, 2018 04:34 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

CHIP - yessish
long-term funding - no
DACA - no

it will be interesting who gains from this in the polls


the first numbers are in

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000161-1704-de25-ab69-1faef4310001

Quote:
the POLITICO/Morning Consult poll actually shows an increase in the percentage of voters who thought passing a DACA fix was worth shutting down the government.

"As Democrats consider their next move, our polling shows an uptick in voter support for shutting down the government over protections for 'Dreamers,'" said Morning Consult co-founder and Chief Research Officer Kyle Dropp. "In a poll taken before the shutdown, 42 percent of voters said this issue was important enough to prompt a government shutdown, compared with 47 percent of voters who say the same today."

Fewer voters in the poll, 38 percent, say DACA is not important enough to shut down the government — down from 42 percent immediately before the shutdown.


def not what I expected to see
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2018 08:09 pm
Tom Perez: The Democrats' Status Quo Nothingburger

Sometimes a party’s leader seems to symbolize an enduring malaise. For Democrats in 2018, that institutional leader is Tom Perez.

While serving as secretary of labor during President Obama’s second term, Perez gained a reputation as an advocate for workers and civil rights. That image may have helped him win a narrow election among Democratic leaders to become chair of the Democratic National Committee, with the backing of Hillary Clinton loyalists eager to prevent the top DNC job from going to Bernie Sanders supporter Rep. Keith Ellison.

Perez’s leadership of the DNC during the last 11 months has been mediocre or worse. The problems go far beyond administrative failings, lack of inspirational impacts or shortcomings in fundraising. His mode of using progressive rhetoric while purging progressives from key DNC committees reflected a pattern.

At the top of the DNC, the Clinton wing’s determination to keep the progressive base at arm’s length has not abated—while, at the same time, the DNC proclaims its commitment to the progressive base. The contradiction exists because of Democratic Party priorities revolving around corporate power.

uo Nothingburger
COMMENTS
Tom Perez. (Lonnie Tague / Wikimedia)
Sometimes a party’s leader seems to symbolize an enduring malaise. For Democrats in 2018, that institutional leader is Tom Perez.

While serving as secretary of labor during President Obama’s second term, Perez gained a reputation as an advocate for workers and civil rights. That image may have helped him win a narrow election among Democratic leaders to become chair of the Democratic National Committee, with the backing of Hillary Clinton loyalists eager to prevent the top DNC job from going to Bernie Sanders supporter Rep. Keith Ellison.

Perez’s leadership of the DNC during the last 11 months has been mediocre or worse. The problems go far beyond administrative failings, lack of inspirational impacts or shortcomings in fundraising. His mode of using progressive rhetoric while purging progressives from key DNC committees reflected a pattern.

At the top of the DNC, the Clinton wing’s determination to keep the progressive base at arm’s length has not abated—while, at the same time, the DNC proclaims its commitment to the progressive base. The contradiction exists because of Democratic Party priorities revolving around corporate power.

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To align the DNC with a grass-roots base that is notably more progressive and has enormous energy to challenge Wall Street and the oligarchy, it would be necessary to welcome that energy instead of trying to keep it at bay.

Rhetoric aside, the DNC leadership is hardly oriented to challenging the corporate domination that imposes so much economic injustice. Some disturbing indicators of the current chair’s orientation can be found in his Obama-era record as an assistant attorney general as well as head of the Labor Department.

“Before Tom Perez was Labor Secretary granting waivers to indicted banks, he was at the Justice Department not prosecuting Steve Mnuchin for illegally foreclosing on active duty troops,” financial specialist Matt Stoller pointed out in a recent tweet.

A former budget staffer on Capitol Hill, Stoller wrote an investigative report last February for The Intercept that laid out in detail how Perez refused to confront the criminal actions of large banks and their top executives during his eight years at the Justice and Labor departments. Stoller noted that “the reluctance to take on Wall Street has been a hallmark of the modern Democratic Party—and has served as an electoral headwind up and down the ticket.”

And, Stoller wrote, Perez “represents the finance-friendly status quo that has relegated Democrats to minority status.”

During the electoral tailspin of 2016, Perez was all in with Clinton’s battle against Sanders. On Feb. 5, 2016—just after Clinton had squeaked through the Iowa caucuses—Perez sent an email to Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, looking ahead to the imminent primary in New Hampshire and caucuses in Nevada. Reporting that “I was in NH on Sunday and Nevada on Monday and Tuesday for HRC,” Perez offered advice on how to counter the Sanders campaign, such as trying to promote a narrative that “Bernie does well only among young white liberals.”

Perez closed his email memo to Podesta with a reference to the next Clinton-Sanders debate: “Let me know how I can be of further assistance. I believe I am heading to Milwaukee next Thursday to help with debate spin.”

These days, two years later, Perez is publicly voicing strong support for the recommendations of the DNC’s Unity Reform Commission, which has called for some important steps toward a more democratic Democratic Party—including a 60 percent reduction in unelected superdelegates for the 2020 national convention. Yet we don’t know what Perez is privately saying to fellow Clinton loyalists on the Rules and Bylaws Committee that is now very slowly taking up those recommendations.

Perez had seen to it that this key committee would be bereft of Sanders supporters. There are signs that the committee is slow-walking the recommendations toward a watered-down morass—which progressives should demand must not happen.

While, in recent days, progressive outrage has been rightly focused on the cave-in of Democratic “leadership” in the Senate during the brief government shutdown, the stasis of the DNC sank further into the shadows when the Rules and Bylaws Committee adjourned a two-day meeting on Jan. 20. It appears that even the compromise reforms painstakingly hammered out by the party’s Unity Reform Commission for the better part of 2017 are in jeopardy.

In short, the corporate power structure of the Democratic Party, institutionalized in the DNC, has not given up on blocking efforts to reform the party and how it chooses a presidential nominee. One of the key battlegrounds will be over the compromise reform proposal to eliminate three-fifths of the superdelegates at the party’s national convention; these were entrenched Democrats who lined up behind Hillary Clinton by the hundreds for the 2016 nomination before a single vote was cast by the masses in a primary or caucus.

Meanwhile, under Perez’s uninspiring leadership, the DNC’s fundraising has been second-rate. At latest report, the DNC had only $6.4 million in cash on hand, while the Republican National Committee had $39.8 million cash on hand. Last week, a Vice article quoted a “Democratic official who has worked with Perez” as saying: “Tom is just really miserable in the job, which is part of why it’s not going well. He hates the fundraising and says no to so much of the fundraising even though they are obviously not in good shape financially.”

You’d think that with so much at stake and such a big hole to dig out of, Perez would be concentrating all his labors on being DNC chair. But last year, in late summer, Brown University announced that Perez would be spending the full 2017-18 academic year as a “senior fellow” at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs. “Throughout the year, Perez will engage with students, faculty, and visitors,” the university said. He “will lead a study group in which students will engage in open-ended discussions and free-flow give and take with leading figures in American politics.”

The university said that Perez would be meeting with the study group at Brown “for an hour and a half seven times this [fall] semester,” and he “will hold informal lunches and office hours.” A spokeswoman for Brown University confirmed to me this week that Perez is continuing this role through the spring.

That the Democratic National Committee tolerates its chair frequently shuttling to Rhode Island to teach a college course while the Democratic Party is supposed to be going all-out to defeat Republicans this year tells us a lot about the quality of the current DNC leadership.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/dnc-chair-tom-perez-democratic-partys-grim-metaphor/
0 Replies
 
 

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