29
   

Why I left the Democratic Party

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 01:14 pm
Of course you don't see it. You are a "loyal Democrat."
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 01:26 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
Trump and his isolated and roundly, correctly-maligned behavior is an anomaly in our history.

It's too early to be assigning the verdict of history to a movement and an administration that hasn't even been in power for a year.
Quote:
Clinton’s stealthy anti-democratic neoliberalism, which goes unreported by her aligned media, has sneaked up through decades, camouflaged as correctness.

I don't think news about the Clintons has been unreported or even under-reported. Nor have I sensed that most people imbue their sort of pragmatic centrism with any aura of "correctness".
Quote:

The other is more than half-way to a Fascism you don’t see—and won’t—until it is choking the life out of you and everyone you love.

That's over the top. The country will turn toward authoritarian rule when environmental disasters and resulting economic decline precipitate it; Clintonian "neoliberalism" will be long forgotten. We'll be choking on pollution, not fascism.

So, again, can you explain how anyone has "made up facts" here?

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 01:31 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
You are a "loyal Democrat."

Bullshit. Frustrated by our "first past the post" electoral system which tends to make third party challenges irrelevant, I consider them slightly less toxic than the other main party, better on environmental, legal, and social issues, dismally equivalent on military adventurism.
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 02:42 pm
@hightor,
Yes to your post.
I had at least one thread here against her but switched midstream after liking Bernie (still probably do) but doubting his ability to win the nugget. Bernie was rather like myself and I'm unlikely to become president, even if I were a guy.
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 02:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
I don't know, as I don't fully follow military pros and cons these days. There well may be a good explanation for the increase. Or it may be more maple syrup for actions I don't want, yet again in my life.

Listening.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 03:26 pm
@ossobucotemp,
ossobucotemp wrote:
. . . I'm unlikely to become president, even if I were a guy.


I'd vote for you. Smile
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 03:29 pm
I didn't start this as a hate Hillary thread, despite some charging same. This thread is an indictment of the party, for refusing to adapt to the times. It is not intended to replay the last presidential election again and again, but to goad them into being reasonable, to stop tossing out the progressives, even as this is written. You can't be serious about supporting a party that lets the other side have it all, including the three branches of federal government and most state governments. A condition that has been snowballing since the Nixon and Johnson times. Now it's at critical mass. Democrat stalwarts say, Bernie's way can't work. But that's because you won't admit it can. Your policies have not only not been working, they are feeding the enemy.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 04:13 pm
Sorry, Edgar. I probably took it down the wrong road.

I’ll try to find a more appropriate thread.

👍🏻
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Nov, 2017 04:23 pm
@Lash,
I have no problem with your posting here. I just wanted people to be reminded what my goal is here.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 11:00 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
It is not intended to replay the last presidential election again and again, but to goad them into being reasonable, to stop tossing out the progressives, even as this is written.


Do you not understand that it's the job of Progressive to CONVINCE people their policies can work? Nobody is 'tossing them out.' It's simply a failure on the part of the Progressive movement to show that their plans would in fact be superior to the ones that the rest of the party is going with.

You seem to think that the only thing that's holding the movement back is some lack of acceptance by the members of the Dem party. That's not true in the slightest. Instead, we ask questions about your goals and policies that you aren't able to answer.

Cycloptichorn
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 11:15 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Do you not understand that it's the job of Progressive to CONVINCE people their policies can work.


Ditto

Probably be more successful without a lot of the negativity.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 01:39 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I've offered stuff here that you call wrong, but don't bother to address. It is a many pronged problem. One is to get you to accept progressives' right to even participate fairly. I've read statements by many establishment Dems claiming it is their right to shut out other candidates in favor of the chosen (Hillary) one. Which leads me to wonder: Why hold primaries if you have already declared the winner?

You say progressive programs can't work. Of course not when you people drag your feet and act like big business shills all the time.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 01:42 pm
I usually keep revelette on ignore for the person's negativity. Rather amusing such an objectionable person accuses my attempts at restoring positivity to the party of being negative.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 01:48 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
...my attempts at restoring positivity to the party of being negative.


Is that what you think you're doing?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 01:55 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I've offered stuff here that you call wrong, but don't bother to address. It is a many pronged problem. One is to get you to accept progressives' right to even participate fairly. I've read statements by many establishment Dems claiming it is their right to shut out other candidates in favor of the chosen (Hillary) one. Which leads me to wonder: Why hold primaries if you have already declared the winner?

You say progressive programs can't work. Of course not when you people drag your feet and act like big business shills all the time.


I agree that the DNC should be fair to all realistic democratic candidates (meaning able to actually get votes). Candidates who have chosen to be part of the party and to work to improve the country through the policies of the party. I'm not going to discuss what happened in 2016 (mostly because I found the process to be essentially fair), but I will say that moving forward I think this should be the case.

I do not want to see them allow an independent to run for president using the party's banner and system again. That includes Sanders in 2020 unless he joins the party before running. And I would call him a carpet bagger and in my view it would hurt his candidacy if he didn't join at least 1-2 years before running.

No political party has an obligation to allow people outside the party to take part in the party system (though I agree that if they choose to, it should be fair). Sanders can run as an independent candidate if he so chooses.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 03:21 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Do you not understand that it's the job of Progressive to CONVINCE people their policies can work? Nobody is 'tossing them out.' It's simply a failure on the part of the Progressive movement to show that their plans would in fact be superior to the ones that the rest of the party is going with.


The American people is already convinced that more redistributive policies will work, and are badly needed.

Quote:
America appears to be far more center-left than center-right. In a recent analysis of Democracy Fund Voter Study Group survey data, the political scientist Lee Drutman found that 73.5 percent of the 2016 electorate espoused broadly left-of-center views on economic policy.

That finding is supported by polling on individual fiscal issues over the past year. Recent surveys have shown that most Americans — including majorities of Republican voters — support increasing federal financing of health care and oppose cutting taxes for the wealthy. [...] Recent polls have found that over 60 percent of Americans support tuition-free public college (a majority that includes 58 percent of independents and 47 percent of Republicans); that over 60 percent of all voters favor Medicaid and Medicare buy-in programs, while a slim majority likes the sound of single-payer; and that 82 percent of voters, including 70 percent of Republicans, support new legislation expanding access to paid family and medical leave.



http://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/opinion/democrats-economic-policy.html
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Nov, 2017 04:52 pm
Here's the way to convince: (I got this in my email today)

YOUNG TURKS

In just a few days, people in the progressive movement raised $136,382 for Alison Hartson’s grassroots campaign to defeat Dianne Feinstein -- the biggest corporate Democrat of them all. That’s amazing. But their campaign needs to raise about $10,618 more to pay for critical campaign infrastructure.

Add a $27 contribution right now to help Alison reach her goal and defeat Dianne Feinstein. 100% of your money goes directly to Alison’s campaign.
California is supposed to be a progressive state. It’s not right that we have a senator like Feinstein who votes with Trump one-third of the time. In a state where Medicare for All is extremely popular, Feinstein said ‘heck no’ and then one week later took campaign cash from the biggest healthcare lobbyists in the country.
Dianne Feinstein already has $4 million in the bank -- even though she didn’t even know if she’d have a serious challenger. It’s going to take nothing short of a political revolution to give Alison a shot. The good news is, the Political Revolution is our specialty!
Alison’s campaign, on the other hand, is refusing corporate PAC money and will be 100% grassroots powered and funded. That’s why I’m reaching out again today to ask you to help Alison reach her goal. She needs to get to $147,000 by Monday to buy the voter file that will let her campaign volunteers start contacting primary voters.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Nov, 2017 07:47 am
@Olivier5,
I agree with their policies it is their judgements I have a hard time with. But to be fair, I am going to check out Feinstein's record of voting to see how she stacks up. Sometimes, claims made are misleading.

Didn't take long.

According to govtrack she is considered purple idealogy which is not the best.

GovTrack Dianne Feinstein

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Nov, 2017 08:14 am
@Olivier5,
The problem, as I've said many times, isn't a problem with the goals of the Progressive movement. It's with their failure to understand the process.

Cycloptichorn
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Nov, 2017 08:36 am
@Cycloptichorn,
What process are you talking about now? You keep changing the goal post...
 

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