29
   

Why I left the Democratic Party

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 10:53 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I admit that this new wave is loud and boisterous and have had 2 or 3 victories in primary elections in very safe districts. I’d hardly call that “overwhelming.”


Looks like a trend to me. It will be interesting to see if Nancy Pelosi survives as Minority leader after the next election.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 10:57 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

maporsche wrote:

I admit that this new wave is loud and boisterous and have had 2 or 3 victories in primary elections in very safe districts. I’d hardly call that “overwhelming.”


Looks like a trend to me. It will be interesting to see if Nancy Pelosi survives as Minority leader after the next election.


Is there a response coming that supports your declaration that the democrats have no agenda but that their uber-progressive wing has a well described one....or are you conceding that part of your post was complete bullshit?
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 11:01 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

maporsche wrote:

I admit that this new wave is loud and boisterous and have had 2 or 3 victories in primary elections in very safe districts. I’d hardly call that “overwhelming.”


Looks like a trend to me. It will be interesting to see if Nancy Pelosi survives as Minority leader after the next election.


Do you remember the name of the type of bias where you pay attention to the cases/elections that support your argument and you ignore the vast majority of cases/elections that do not support your argument?


Or maybe the type of bias where you only pay attention the recent events (like 2 days ago) and you write off events further in the past (like 1 week prior)?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 11:03 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

What is the “well described agenda” of these left wing progressives you mention? How does it differ from whatever you’d consider the establishment?


Lash, with the help of Vox, done posted it, eh?

Lash wrote:
Medicare-for-all (and she meant real single-payer health insurance)
A federal jobs guarantee
Tuition-free college for all
Repeal Citizens United by constitutional amendment
Abolish ICE
Restore the Glass-Steagall financial regulations
A Green New Deal to be fossil fuel-free by 2035
Ban privately owned prisons
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 11:07 am
@layman,
a) hardly "well described"
b) that is one candidates agenda; literally every candidate has one...all of them

If that's the standard that George is calling "well described" when compared to the Democrats, then he's an idiot (and I don't think he's an idiot). He must know that there is a party platform that is several pages long that describe plans for most all of those areas for the party. It's certainly more "well described" than this bullet point list from Vox.

0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 11:30 am
Democratic Party Platform
July 21, 2016

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=117717
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 11:38 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Is there a response coming that supports your declaration that the democrats have no agenda but that their uber-progressive wing has a well described one....or are you conceding that part of your post was complete bullshit?


You are fighting with straw man of your own creation. I acknowledged that Establishment Democrats have papered the agenda file, but clearly noted that, in their words and actions as legislators, they have demonstrated that they have no agenda other than opposition to Trump. The contrast with the largely irresponsible new left is quite stark.

You are straining my respect for your integrity with, what once appeared as mere nit picking, but which recently has moved on to selective distortion of what I wrote and puerile demands for responses.
maporsche
 
  6  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 11:46 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

in their words and actions as legislators, they have demonstrated that they have no agenda other than opposition to Trump. The contrast with the largely irresponsible new left is quite stark.


Talk about straining respect for integrity George.

Just because the news decides to cover the drama of the Trump whitehouse does not mean that democrats do not have or are in fact working an agenda.

You asked me a few weeks ago what bills they introduced for gun control, healthcare, etc and I posted probably 6 different bills all in the last few weeks. You just dismissed those and the thousands of other bills/amendments/etc; probably because they refute your opinion.

The fact that your republican majority leaders won't let those bills come up for a vote is not proof that democrats are not doing anything.

Opposition to Trumps actions is in fact one of these things that their constituents want them to do. It's in fact, their job. But it's not the only thing they are doing and your integrity is in question if you can't see that.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 08:19 pm
Quote:
A group of Democratic lawmakers from Maryland is demanding answers from Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen and Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Alex Azar regarding the Trump administration’s abusive child separation policy, and how it intends to reunite families split up at the U.S.-Mexico border.

The letter, sent Thursday and signed by all of Maryland’s Democratic representatives and senators, including Rep. Anthony Brown, Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer, and Sens. Ben Cardin and Chris Van Hollen, requested more information about the initial separation process, and the most up-to-date figures on how many children have been removed from their parents and placed under DHS or HHS care. It also asked the agencies to provide information about the well-being of those children, and how exactly they plan to locate each child’s family.

“It is our understanding that children have been placed in as many as one hundred different facilities in eleven different states,” the legislators wrote. “We find it troubling that these children are being dispersed across the country seemingly haphazardly and without a clear process in place for future reunification with their parents or other family members.”

The letter closely resembles another letter delivered earlier this week to the same pair of cabinet officials, as well as Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The first letter was signed by more than 20 House Democrats, including Hoyer and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.

The Maryland legislators also expressed concern about the two agencies’ lack of transparency in reporting accurate intake statistics to the public, as well as reports that many of the centers to which children have been taken have histories of abuse or mismanagement.
“We are concerned that officials are declining to disclose even basic information about these contracted detention facilities,” they wrote. “Members of Congress and the American people have a right to know more about how these children are being cared for and where the reunification process stands.”



Democrats send letter to DHS, HHS secretaries, demanding answers
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 09:07 pm
@revelette1,
Could you remind me Rev, is oversight of the executive branch in the Democratic Congress people’s job description? Are they attempting to do their job here.

I’m just curious cause I’m sure George would like to know.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Jun, 2018 10:04 pm
https://youtu.be/2nwRiuh1Cug

I’m Bernie Sanders, and I approve this message.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 06:12 am
I can think of few things more hilarious than a conservative complaining about obstructionist Democrats. Since Republicans took over the House in 1994, obstruction has been their legislative mantra. What is more laughable, is the extent to which Republicans have obstructed President Plump's agenda.

Anyway, where is it written that any party is under an obligation to meekly submit to the agenda of another party?
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 06:14 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

https://youtu.be/2nwRiuh1Cug

I’m Bernie Sanders, and I approve this message.


What's to approve? There was no message.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 06:27 am
@layman,
Must be coded. I got the message.

Bernie has been sending me long explanations about how I should be responding to what’s happening to children at our southern border and the Court vacancy. There is no moss growing on Bernie.

———————

In other news, Maxine Waters calls for public harassment of members of the Trump administration, then gets death threats. I don’t want anyone to kill her, but seems like perfect justice.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 06:43 am
@Setanta,
No argument from me about the divisions within the Republican party and the resistance to Trump's proposals from both houses of Congress.

As I'm sure you know, I did not suggest "meek submission the the agenda of another party", either generally or in this case, as a standard or goal. Our history reveals many points or options between the present situation and the standard you have chosen to criticize.

My point was the Democrat Leaders in both Houses of Congress have openly declared and repeated their intent to oppose all initiatives coming from the majority party, particularly those involving much needed revisions to our immigration laws. This is a failure of their sworn duties as legislators and a threat to our democracy. Interestingly Republicans have not reciprocated and there have been a number of Democrat-proposed legislative actions that resulted in bipartisan dialogue and accommodation and enacted by the Congress.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 06:46 am
Not everything you read here is about you, buddy.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 07:12 am
@Lash,
If you like Fox news (fake Bernie fan)are crassly referring to the Annapolis newsroom shooting and implying Waters is somehow involved, you haven't kept up.

Who Is Jarrod Ramos, the Suspect in the Annapolis Newsroom Shooting?

Quote:
A Long-Running Dispute With The Capital

His feud with The Capital, the chain’s daily newspaper, apparently began with a column in 2011 that detailed his alleged harassment of a high school classmate.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 09:00 am
https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/06/25/opinions/ex-secret-service-agent-says-waters-comments-are-dangerous-wackrow/

————————
CNN) — Over the weekend, Rep. Maxine Waters -- a vocal critic of President Donald Trump -- directly called for her supporters to publicly confront members of the Trump administration over a "zero-tolerance" policy that separated children from parents who illegally crossed the southern border.

Protest and demonstration is common in our political environment, but the remarks by Waters, a California Democrat, signal not just dissent, they introduce the possibility of direct harassment of government officials — and not just in the public arena but in their private activities as well.
"For these members of his Cabinet who remain and try to defend him, they're not going to be able to go to a restaurant, to be able to stop at a gas station, to be able to shop at a department store. The people are going to turn on them, they're going to protest, they're going to absolutely harass them until they tell the President: 'No, I can't hang with you,'" said Waters over the weekend during an interview.

These statements go beyond breaking the norms of civil discourse; they are dangerous, as they can be misinterpreted as a call to physical action or harm against an individual and people who associate with them.
Play Video
Related Video: Sen. Schumer: Don't harass political opponents 00:47
As a former United States Secret Service agent, I am keenly aware of the evolutionary process by which a protest that grows around a politically charged ethos can act as the catalyst for violent action by an individual or group. Law enforcement has long known of the potential for such phases to transform rhetoric into destructiveness, or physical harm toward people.
The biggest concern is that individuals with malicious intent, often alerted and supported by social media, join those protesting over a specific incident or incidents, and co-opt the issue for the purpose of causing damage and harm. Often these individuals are not concerned or associated with the political protest that gave rise to the disturbance, but leverage the totality of the circumstances and take aim against targets of opportunity, in this case, administration officials.
Because incidents of civil unrest are dynamic and uniquely defined by the nature of the initial cause -- in this case, the administration's policy toward illegal immigration -- government officials are individually ill-prepared to defend themselves from the physical threats they might face. They don't know who will see them -- players (maybe even bit players) in the administration -- as a deserving target for violence.
As a public official, Waters should be held to a higher standard in her comments and actions. She has a responsibility, a "duty of care" of sorts, to prevent specific acts that one might foresee could provoke harm. But rather than exemplifying a higher standard, Waters has retreated along the behavioral continuum toward endorsing mob-rule to satisfy a political goal.
Play Video
Related Video: Trump warns Maxine Waters: 'Be careful what you wish for' 03:18
She is not the only one to have reached for this strategy, to be sure. When he was running for office, Trump himself repeatedly whipped up crowds to encourage violence toward protesters. It is always wrong, and its use by one political "side" never justifies its "in-kind" use by the other.
Where does this end? Do we allow roving bands of protesters throughout Washington to use direct harassment and potential violence as they try to address the myriad policy decisions made each day? I should hope that we are better than this.
Elements often found in law enforcement de-escalation tactics readily apply to today's heightened political tensions. For example:
• De-escalation begins with the individual. Understanding how to prevent one's comments from spiraling into a vortex of chaos exacerbating a situation is a necessary first step. Waters' comments did the opposite; they caused the vortex to spin faster.
• Treat others with respect. Do not be the individual who causes the problems or makes situations worse; encouraging the harassment of others was wrong and disrespectful.
• Focus more on desired outcomes and less on what has happened in the past. Waters and others should seek to legislate immigration policy for a successful resolution, not use past incidents as a call to arms.

• Do not make issues personal and do not take issues personally when dealing with a conflict. Encouraging followers to "create a crowd" and tell people "they are not welcome" is personal.
Our elected officials, Democrats and Republicans alike, need to encourage civil discourse, not civil unrest. Calling for harassment of administrations officials and urging others to "push back on them" is the wrong approach. It only perpetuates a political environment filled with vitriol and hate.
I call on Waters to re-evaluate her comments and find a more productive pathway to address the immigration issues — one that brings help, not harm.



Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 09:11 am
@Lash,
Respect for Trump and his sycophants, huh? Why that?
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 29 Jun, 2018 09:22 am
@Olivier5,
Not respect, but calls for confrontation can get someone, including children of some of these people, assaulted or worse.

The political climate is already horrible. Public attacks isn't the the right direction.
 

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