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How Much Tolerance Should We Have for Hitler?

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 09:27 pm
Lucifer wrote:
If a psychopath kills someone, should you blame them, even though they're not aware of it?

Yes. You can understand why they would not be able to feel guilt, without deducing that they are therefore not guilty. Their inability to realise what they did does not undo the fact that that they did it, and that we consider doing such a thing wrong.

And of course I'd say that goes all the more for the murderer of ten or twenty million people ...
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2004 09:36 pm
Well, I can see what you mean, from a logical perspective, but part of me feels sorry for them because they can never learn from their mistakes because they don't have either the guilt or the consciousness to do so.
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lexi199
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2004 04:38 pm
I agree
Kristie wrote:
Well, he was insane and he will burn in hell for eternity... zero tolerance for what he did.

But I am always impressed when I think about how he did what he did. He was a brilliant speaker. He was able to convince a lot of people that what they were doing was right. It takes a good speaker to convince people that shooting a person execution style at point blank range is ok in the name of your country. He had public speaking training and took pictures of himself while speaking to analyze his body language. He really was an excellent speaker. Psychotic but smart.
wow this person hit the nail on the proverbial head
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2004 11:00 pm
Okay, I've found an informative source. Someone point out the errors, if there are any.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 04:25 am
You have to realise that he didn't just hate jews. He hated slavs, poles, blacks, gypsy's, homeosexuals, etc. He didn't really like the Italians much either but he tolerated them because Mussolini would spread facism to Northern Africa.

I don't believe that Hitler is a one off. With the right conditions, a person like Hitler can thrive. In todays world conditions, he would never be able to gain popularity. But if you have absolute economic depression(not recession but deep deep depression where there are queues a mile long in freezing cold just for a loaf of bread), extreme high unemployment where is hardly any work, and an ethnic population in the country that have economic prosperity, then a person like Hitler can gain power. People in desperate postions look for hope.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 04:48 am
Quote:
People in desperate postions look for hope.


And scapegoats!
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 05:35 am
Yes, that is the point I am making. When all these factors come together, a crazy leader can say " look, all these immigrants are rich and your suffering is because of them. let me eradicate the problem and i give you hope". and in such desperate circumstances, the people of the country abandon their natural rational thought processes and give power to this leader to alleviate their suffering and turn a blind eye to what human rights abuses they are doing.
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 06:46 am
When I was reading that article, I was thinking of that. I wonder if his mental disoreders developed because of his crappy childhood. He had to face a lot of deaths, especially of people he loved.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 06:50 am
australia wrote:
You have to realise that he didn't just hate jews. He hated slavs, poles, blacks, gypsy's, homeosexuals, etc. He didn't really like the Italians much either but he tolerated them because Mussolini would spread facism to Northern Africa.

I don't believe that Hitler is a one off. With the right conditions, a person like Hitler can thrive. In todays world conditions, he would never be able to gain popularity. But if you have absolute economic depression(not recession but deep deep depression where there are queues a mile long in freezing cold just for a loaf of bread), extreme high unemployment where is hardly any work, and an ethnic population in the country that have economic prosperity, then a person like Hitler can gain power. People in desperate postions look for hope.

All true, just want to add the one exception: though the prejudice of "the rich Jew" was rampant at the time (which does explain part of the rage you describe), most Jews in Germany at the time were in fact as dirt poor as the rest of the population.

And though what you write about how those who were driven to desperation by the depression is true, it would need to be expanded a little to explain how Hitler also attracted most of the shopkeepers and small business owners - especially them, actually - whereas (I believe) most of the factory workers stayed true to the Socialdemocrats or Communists (Walter?).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 07:10 am
nimh wrote:
australia wrote:

And though what you write about how those who were driven to desperation by the depression is true, it would need to be expanded a little to explain how Hitler also attracted most of the shopkeepers and small business owners - especially them, actually - whereas (I believe) most of the factory workers stayed true to the Socialdemocrats or Communists (Walter?).


Right.

Actually, Hitler never would have gained so much power, when the inditry and the "small" workers, shopkeepers etc hadn't supported him. (The latter mostly only taken by his demagogic speeches.)

Although my grandfather (co-owner of a mill and corn-trade, Catholic Zentrum, leader of the local parliament of a medium town), never talked with the Communists (communists was the second but largest party there until 1931), he did so, when the influence of the Nazis grew.
When he finally was removed from his post, his 'resistance' wasn't more than being silent in parliament (his only recorded remarks usually were that due to the late hour, the meeting should be postponed) and public (after my grandmother's photo was published in the paper, when she bought beef at the local Jewish butcher's).

The leading communist of this town, Thälmann, later became quite famous.
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 07:22 am
Even his treatment of the german people in parts was poor. His treatment of the german soldiers after the failed stalingrad campaign was disgraceful. Apart from a few lucky ones who managed to catch a plane back, the rest of them were left to walk their way home and the majority perished from the cold. I mean, as a leader, if you can't even show decency to people who are fighting for your cause, you are not much of a person.
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J-B
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 07:31 am
why we always call him HITLER?!
Every historic character is just a character under certain circumstances.

In other way, this guy is not important actually , even if without him we would still have other guys, such as Ditler, Sitler, Bitler, Gitler.......

Because the circumstances at that time didn't change. The certain circumctances need a person to stand up and shout out the fury of Germany, and history appointed this job to a guy named Hitler.
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 09:34 pm
The irony when you see todays neo nazis unemployed, skin heads and swastikas, is that these are they type of people who hitler would have had on his list to eliminate.
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 10:08 pm
Being that I'm not a Neo-Nazi, do their morals differ, or do their goals differ from the original Nazis?
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 10:39 pm
I am not sure, but Hitler would not have tolerated them looking like that. Hitler youth was exactly the opposite.
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 10:43 pm
Oh, I see...

Hitler has problems. He gets spastic rage attacks, and all the people he loved died.
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australia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 10:49 pm
i am not sure I understand what you are trying to say
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2004 11:06 pm
I read in this article that when a person tried to oppose Hitler, he would have these angry fits of rage, and he would never admit that he was wrong. He rarely changes his mind. If he did see those Neo-Nazis, he might get another spastic fit.

Either Hitler has mental disorders or he doesn't care about human life anymore because the people he loved the most died early. According to that article, he was very, very emotional when his mother died, and when his niece died.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2004 08:44 am
Lucifer



Quote:
I read in this article that when a person tried to oppose Hitler, he would have these angry fits of rage, and he would never admit that he was wrong.


Why does that sound so familiar?
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Lucifer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2004 11:26 am
I don't know. That's called anal retentive. Or did you mean the "I know everything" topic at the Philosophy & Debate board?
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