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Mon 6 Dec, 2004 12:10 pm
I know some of you will right out say that he's wrong, and that he shouldn't have done the things that he did, but please consider why he hated the Jews, the society in which he grew up, and how he came into power. I won't say anyone is wrong, but I would like some comments on this.
Re: How Much Tolerance Should We Have for Hitler?
Lucifer wrote:I know some of you will right out say that he's wrong, and that he shouldn't have done the things that he did, but please consider why he hated the Jews, the society in which he grew up, and how he came into power. I won't say anyone is wrong, but I would like some comments on this.
I have to run an errand....but I'll return.
Well, he was insane and he will burn in hell for eternity... zero tolerance for what he did.
But I am always impressed when I think about how he did what he did. He was a brilliant speaker. He was able to convince a lot of people that what they were doing was right. It takes a good speaker to convince people that shooting a person execution style at point blank range is ok in the name of your country. He had public speaking training and took pictures of himself while speaking to analyze his body language. He really was an excellent speaker. Psychotic but smart.
Psychotic? Not psychopath? I was told there was a difference, in that psychotic people have mental problems, but they do have a consciousness and guilt, but psychopaths don't, so they don't feel guilt. It's as if a psychopath never had any frontal lobes.
Just to clear things up, that's all.
I think he did have mental problems and I think that his mental problems contributed to his convincing himself that he was right in doing what he was doing, thus eliminating guilt. But I can't remember if I read that he was mentally ill or if I just made that up in my head.
Anyone know for sure?
Either way he was crazy.
Re: How Much Tolerance Should We Have for Hitler?
Lucifer wrote:I know some of you will right out say that he's wrong, and that he shouldn't have done the things that he did, but please consider why he hated the Jews, the society in which he grew up, and how he came into power. I won't say anyone is wrong, but I would like some comments on this.
Why
did he hate the Jews?
And how can consideration of his reasons for hating the Jews serve as any kind of excuse for what he did
to the Jews?
One idea for his hatred of Jews may have been from his childhood experience. His mother died when he was young, and he may have blamed it on the doctor who didn't treat his mother properly. The doctor was Jewish.
Another idea (and I saw this in an article) was that it had to do with his religion--ie, Christianity. The article compared Jesus with Hitler, in that both of them condemned the Jews.
Re: How Much Tolerance Should We Have for Hitler?
joefromchicago wrote:Lucifer wrote:I know some of you will right out say that he's wrong, and that he shouldn't have done the things that he did, but please consider why he hated the Jews, the society in which he grew up, and how he came into power. I won't say anyone is wrong, but I would like some comments on this.
Why
did he hate the Jews?
And how can consideration of his reasons for hating the Jews serve as any kind of excuse for what he did
to the Jews?
For whatever reason, he thought that the Jews were a dirty race and that they were destroying Germany. Which is why he came up with the Arean race (blonde hair, blue eyed German stereotype), which is funny because #1 he wasn't blonde haired or blue eyed and #2 He was part Jewish.
Hating someone is no excuse. And comparing it to Christianity is crazy. Jesus did not condemn the Jews; i.e. the "Forgive them Father...they know not what they do" bit. The condemned him.
I just read it from an article. I don't know if it's true, but I don't remember the link for that article. There was a real Aryan race, at least not the one that is considered having blonde hair and blue eyes, but they did live in India at some point in time, but it would have been a very, very long time ago.
Lucifer
Are you attempting to justify or excuse what Hitler did? Ridiculous, there is no possible justification. The seemingly attempt to excuse or give reason for his actions is beyond comprehension. It is something right out of the Ayran nations handbook.
No, I'm not justifying or excusing, and I'm not a Neo-Nazi either. I just want people's opinions on this matter--do people just automatically say he's wrong because he killed lots of people without considering his background, or whether or not he was fully aware that he did have Jewish ancestry. I'm getting all sorts of suggestions as to why he hates Jews, why he did what he did, and they could all be considered for his actions, which we would morally and instinctively interpret as wrong, but there are other ways of interpreting it, including a logical mindset or a psychological mindset.
Then for those that do consider Hitler a psychopath, I was told that a psychopath is defined as someone who isn't aware of what he is doing--ie, they're not conscious. So do we excuse psychopaths because they don't realize what they're doing, or do we not consider their consciousness?
Lucifer wrote:... or whether or not he was fully aware that he did have Jewish ancestry. [...]
The view of some "historians" that Hitler had Jewish ancestors has been confuted a good many times, but obviously not enough.
Someone on a different forum told me he had a Jewish grandfather, but there was a lot of controversy over his ancestry.
"Someone on a forum" is not necessarily the best source to rely on, Lucifer.
You're also someone on a forum too, right? I'm not saying I agree with him. That forum was a specialized history forum with some debaters and bright people on it, so I'm sure very few of them are trolls, flamers or ignorant people.
Well, obviously this one knows a lot more than others.
Besides, there isn't any controversy among historians, because the only source for this is Hans Frank in "Im Angesicht des Galgens" on page 330 .
There are dozens of details against this (besides the fact that Frank is contradictory on the following page 331 :wink: ), but the most convincing is that from the 15th century onwards until the time after Hitler's grandmother died, no Jew lived in Graz.
'Pied piper history' for neo-nazis that's what you are following here.
Either of the brothers Johann Georg Hiedler or Johann Nepomuk Hüttler has been Hitler's grandfather (both Catholics).
It is not clear, who's really been. But this neclegtable here, since definately none of them (or their ancestors) was Jewish.
It seems that the beserking anti-semite Frank tried to blame the hated Jewish for Hitler as well.
Many people have skewed backgrounds, are victims of circumstance, genetics or (fill in the blank) not all become mass murderers, some excel at being human beings. To say that a person deserves tolerance because of a shitty childhood or bigoted parents/culture diminishes the great achievement of others. For every victim, there is a sucess story, it depends on the choices you make. Cleary, Hitler was evil but not every person of a similar background would have made his horrific life choices. Some fools followed him and they are just as repugnant, for they enabled an insane man his legacy.
Then do you think, that if Hitler were born somewhere else with less emphasis on hatred of Jews (if whoever told me that people in Germany hated the Jews at that time was correct--I'm presuming this could be true because Jews were often scapegoats, otherwise that might have been a while ago), that he would still hate the Jews and did what he did?
Hitler wasn't born in Germany and he did not actually become a German citizen until 1932.
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