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If Trump's Climate Change Withdrawal Pushes UK to Labour, can the UK un-Brexit?

 
 
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2017 08:47 pm
Neil Farage, head of the UKIP, the party that advocated Brexit, has very closely and publicly aligned himself with Donald Trump. The UKIP has largely been swallowed up by the Conservatives. With Trump's withdrawal from the Paris Accord, he is likely to be even more unpopular in the UK than ever. With the UK election coming up and Trump's Administration seemingly unraveling, it is conceivable that Labour might swing the election their way.

If they do, can they stop the Brexit process once they take office?

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Type: Question • Score: 12 • Views: 3,689 • Replies: 130

 
Kolyo
 
  4  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2017 09:23 pm
It would be kind of cool if the British people could vote on the final Brexit deal, once they knew what Brexit meant for them in practical terms.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 01:15 am
@Blickers,
Farage is a minor figure. UKIP got a lot of MEPs purely because people couldn't be bothered to vote in European elections, only the committed bothered, that and PR. In Westminster they've only managed one, Douglas Carswell who defected from the Tories and now has left UKIP. He's no way near as important as you Americans think he is.

Most British people hold Wotsit Hitler in contempt anyway, his withdrawal from the Paris accord, along with his attack on the London mayor was expected.

Brexit and the Paris accord are two separate things, if Corbyn gets in, (still highly unlikely,) he will condemn Trumps decisions along with other World leaders unlike May whose approach to Wotsit Hitler is supine.

As for Brexit both Corbyn and May have committed themselves to it, the only party opting for a second referendum are the Liberals but nobody trusts them. If there's a hung parliament and Corbyn relies on Liberal votes then a second referendum may be the price for their support, but there's a lot of ifs and buts.

We'll have a better idea on Friday.

Just to clarify, Trump's decision re Paris accord will not affect peoples' voting intentions, and Corbyn is committed to Brexit.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 01:39 am
Hope you don't mind but there aren't any other threads on the election so I'll dump this here.

Quote:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/5F21/production/_96335342_banksynew.jpg

An offer of a free Banksy print to people who vote against the Conservatives is being investigated by police.
Avon and Somerset Police has received a number of complaints over the secretive street artist's offer.
Applicants from six Bristol constituencies have to send him a ballot paper photo showing a vote against the Tories to get the print.
Police said anyone taking part in the offer could also be prosecuted.
A police spokesman said: "We've received a number of complaints about an offer of a free Banksy print to people living in six Bristol constituencies in exchange for them voting in a certain way in the forthcoming election and we can confirm we're investigating the offer.
"It is a criminal offence under the Representation of the People Act 1983 for any voter to accept or agree to accept a gift or similar in return for voting or refraining from voting.
"Any person participating in an offer to receive a gift is at risk of being prosecuted."
'Souvenir piece'
The offer has been made to voters in the Bristol North West, Bristol West, North Somerset, Thornbury, Kingswood and Filton constituencies in and around Banksy's home city.
The artist wrote on his website: "Simply send in a photo of your ballot paper from polling day showing you voted against the Conservative candidate and this complimentary gift will be mailed to you."
The artwork, which he has also put on his Instagram page, reprises his well-known "girl with a balloon" motif, but with a Union Jack in the balloon.
It will be released on 9 June, Banksy said on his website.
A disclaimer states the print was "a souvenir piece" which was not in any way intended to influence voters but was for "amusement purposes only".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-40167008
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 02:48 am
Farage was the leader of UKIP until 2016 (and for a short time interim leader that year, too), now it's Paul Nuttall.

If (when) Labour wins or become part of a new coalition government without the Conservatives, there won't be an "un-Brexit" but a different approach to the leave-consultations with a very different result.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 03:17 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, Corbyn won't be so quick to stick his tongue up Trump's arse, it will be a more pro Europe Brexit.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 06:29 am
@Blickers,
I honesty hope Europe don't do the mistake of taking back the British. Their all plan/agenda from the get go was to stop Europe or delay its natural development into a Federation. Now that we got rid of the problem taking British back in would open a precedent to swing out an in at will as things get worse or better for each member. A dangerous idea where nothing substantial would ever be done or decided.
I say they are out they are out. Go kiss azz to Trump and loony America for a change!
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:04 am
@izzythepush,
Do you think May will be out?
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:28 am
@revelette1,
At the beginning it was a slam dunk for May. Now I'm not so sure, I think she'll probably scrape back in, but I really hope I'm wrong.

I'm trying not to build my hopes up because I couldn't stand the disappointment.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 10:50 am
@izzythepush,
I've been looking at some of the charts at the Economist that splits open the demographics from the polls. The young people really need to get out and vote - it's their future that is on the line - and their interests do not line up at all with how the older voters say they will be voting.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 11:15 am
My bet would be that the Conservatives end up with as many seats as they had, at most. (May seems to have been successful in dodging answers and changing the subject in the latest discussions.)
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 11:22 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I'm trying not to build my hopes up because I couldn't stand the disappointment.


I know the feeling only too well. Wink

Each time some kind of special election comes up since Trump won, I have been doing to same thing; also taking solace in any kind of good encouragement I can glean from it.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 11:58 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
As for Brexit both Corbyn and May have committed themselves to it

My local Labour MP, Thangam Debbonaire resigned from Jeremy's shadow cabinet after the Brexit referendum in protest at his lack of leadership. She was also one of 170 MPs who backed Owen Smith during the leadership race. I have met her; she is a lovely person.
izzythepush wrote:
Just to clarify, Trump's decision re Paris accord will not affect peoples' voting intentions

Most British voters couldn't give a toss, unfortunately, about the Paris accords. A majority, I daresay, don't know what they are.
izzythepush wrote:
and Corbyn is committed to Brexit.

In the run-up to the EU referendum, Corbyn said that there was an "overwhelming case" for staying in the EU. In a speech in London, Corbyn said "We, the Labour Party, are overwhelmingly for staying in, because we believe the European Union has brought investment, jobs and protection for workers, consumers and the environment." If he is the next prime minister, Corbyn is not likely to lead Britain out of the EU on the terms that will be offered.

And if his government requires the support of the Scottish Nationalist Party, Brexit becomes even less likely, since the Scots are passionate about not wanting to quit the E.U. A Britain that left the E.U. could well pave the way for a Britain without Scotland.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 12:22 pm
@ehBeth,
Adam Hills pointed to two different polls, one showing a hung parliament and the other a Tory majority, the difference between the two was one assumed young people would vote.

Young people have long complained that all the parties are the same and there's no point in voting. Not this time though.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 12:29 pm
@centrox,
I can't see Corbyn not doing Brexit, I can see concessions along the way like second referendums, but I can't see him not doing it.
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 12:33 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I can't see Corbyn not doing Brexit, I can see concessions along the way like second referendums, but I can't see him not doing it.

What about when it becomes abundantly clear that it can't be done? When everyone see what a crock of **** the idea is?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/deeper-meaning-corbyn-brexit_us_5934845ae4b02478cb9cc7a7

Robert Kuttner is co-editor of The American Prospect and professor at Brandeis University’s Heller School. His latest book is Debtors’ Prison: The Politics of Austerity Versus Possibility.

Quote:
... there is simply no way to make Brexit work.

Consider just a few items:

Britain wants to have its cake and eat too, keeping tariff-free access for trade with the nations of the E.U, but having the freedom to limit free movement of people, and also opting out of many E.U. laws and regulations. But there is no way the E.U leadership will allow that.

Some 14,000 trucks travel between Dover and Calais every day. Imagine if they were subject to border inspections?

The defunct British auto industry was rescued by Japanese and Korean carmakers after the Thatcher government extended generous tax breaks. Britain became their export platform to continental Europe. If there is no more free trade between Britain and the continent, other nations will be happy to take these factories.

Fully half of all British exports go to E.U. countries. But only ten percent of E.U. exports go to Britain. Guess which side has more leverage in the negotiations?

Since Thatcher, Britain’s most important industry has been international finance. With the threat of Britain losing access to barrier-free export of financial services, the big American and British banks are already making contingency plans to move operations to Dublin, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, and so on.

The state of play is that negotiations on the details will continue through 2019 or 2020. At some point, the reality will sink in that Brexit can’t be done, except at immense pain to Britain’s economy.

Denis MacShane, former Europe minister in the Blair government, wrote a prophetic book in 2015 on how Britain’s governing class was setting itself for a catastrophe in the 2016 Brexit vote.

MacShane has a new book due out in July, explaining just why getting out of the E.U. is like unscrambling an egg. “There are 750 separate treaties that would have to be negotiated,” he told me. British citizens would lose benefits they’ve come to take for granted, such as the right to retire in pleasant places on the continent, and free health care while they are traveling in Europe. The more all of this sinks in, the less popular Brexit will be,

And this brings us back to Corbyn and May. Corbyn was never a strong supporter of the E.U., which he viewed as a source of imported neo-liberalism. Nominally, Labour supports making Brexit work. But if he is the next prime minister, Corbyn is not likely to lead Britain out of the EU on the terms that will be offered.

And if his government requires the support of the Scottish Nationalist Party, Brexit becomes even less likely, since the Scots are passionate about not wanting to quit the E.U. A Britain that left the E.U. could well pave the way for a Britain without Scotland.

Even if May is re-elected, pressure will keep increasing from the Conservatives’ usual constituency of Britain’s ruling elites not to commit the folly of Brexit. The best outcome would be for the sheer opportunism of two successive Conservative prime ministers to discredit their party for a long time—but not at the price of a catastrophically bad decision to quit Europe.

Of course, when the Brexit madness does pass, the harder work of rebuilding a decent Britain that works “for the many, not the few,” only begins.

centrox
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 12:42 pm
I see Steve Coogan says that the Conservatives are ‘taking the piss’ and that Jezza has shown ‘an authenticity we are not accustomed to seeing in successful politicians’.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 12:43 pm
@centrox,
If he doesn't at least try to do it that's all people will talk about, he'll find it very hard to get anything else done.

I don't want Brexit either but I can't see it not happening. Maybe it will all fall apart, but it will have to be set up first.
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 01:32 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I don't want Brexit either but I can't see it not happening. Maybe it will all fall apart, but it will have to be set up first.

This is what I think, too.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2017 01:36 pm
@centrox,
And now comes the rub, who do you want ******* up Brexit and looking hopeless, Corbyn or May?
 

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