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If Trump's Climate Change Withdrawal Pushes UK to Labour, can the UK un-Brexit?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 09:40 am
@revelette1,
We never have elections for prime minister, it's always for the Commons. The legislative decides the executive. Imagine if you didn't have presidential elections but instead gave all executive power to the speaker of Congress, that's similar to what we've got. (You can pm me with questions if you want.)
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 09:43 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
Does this mean, she is weakened for the negotiations?

Oh Yes
revelette1 wrote:
What could be the potential fall out from that?

We'll have to wait and see.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

centrox wrote:
If any of either party's MPs die, resign, go to jail, etc, that working majority (of three) will shrink.
Or has a different opinion to that of the majority (which is quite possible due to the various 'fractions' within the Conservatives and the, well, very conservative DUP.

I wonder if the new government can cobble together a majority for any version of Brexit - hard, soft, whatever, without losing the support of some Conservative MPs, and potentially losing a Commons vote.

As a Guardian commentator noted:

Quote:
Remember the DUP are a Northern Ireland party, with deep concerns about maintaining a "frictionless" border with the Republic of Ireland, which could complicate the ultimate deal, possibly dragging the government into a deal which could arouse the ire of Conservative Brexiteers, if it did not ditch the European Court of Justice, or if it involved unacceptable payments to the EU in return for market access.

The other aggravating factor about the DUP is its coldly transactional approach.

Of course they have a policy agenda - but they also want what the Americans call "pork". Extra funding for all things Northern Ireland, more powers for the NI Executive - if it can be reconstituted - localised tax concessions, you name it. And some of these things would have to come at the expense of English constituencies.

It is worth remembering that the last time a UK government was sustained by Northern Irish votes, it didn't end well.

James Callaghan's minority Labour government of the mid 1970s survived, hand to mouth, for years until Callaghan could no longer stomach the endless deal-making. He might have survived the famous 1979 Commons no confidence debate, if he'd been prepared to fund a gas pipeline to Northern Ireland, but he'd had enough.


camlok
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 11:25 am
@centrox,
Quote:
or if it involved unacceptable payments to the EU in return for market access.


... or if it means you sots won't be able to make a run for cheap booze, or if it means that the south end of the chunnel will be blocked by a huge block of poured concrete.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:08 pm
@centrox,
It's bloody brilliant, she's just made things a lot harder for herself. If she has to call another election she'll be on the back foot. Corbyn has momentum and galvanised the youth, hopefully it will inspire more to vote. There's been some bloody close shaves too, Southampton Itchen was a Tory hold by just 31 votes. Imagine if 16 year olds had had the vote.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:12 pm
As much as I would have liked to see the Tories do a lot better, the voters spoke. Hopefully the Tories and their supporters won't now go on a rampage and accuse the Labour voters of ignorance and venality as the Democrats did here after Trump won.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:29 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
What could the Conservatives accuse Labour of now?
I mean, it has been done in the pre-election editions of the Daily Mail and the Sun two days ago ...

http://i.imgur.com/2d52fTm.jpg


... but they turned on the prime minister overnight as it became clear that the Conservatives would not win a majority.

http://i.imgur.com/sirZGJk.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wKgMjys.jpg

As it seems by now, the inter-conservative quarrels have already started: the Scottish Conservatives seem to have strong objections towards DUP, some leading Conservative question, if May will still be PM in six months time, others wonder, why the most senior cabinet ministers are all keeping their jobs ...
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Labour voters Walter, Labour voters
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:40 pm
2,227 votes away from becoming Prime Minister: winning seven Tory knife-edge seats would have put Labour leader in Downing Street.

The seven constituencies won by the Conservatives over Labour with the slimmest majorities were Southampton Itchen (majority 31); Preseli Pembrokeshire (majority 314); Hastings and Rye (majority 346); Chipping Barnet (majority 353); Thurrock (345 majority); Norwich North (majority 507); and Pudsey (majority 331).

On the other hand, the Conservatives were only 287 votes from being able to form a working majority.

Had the Conservatives seized four seats from Labour - Dudley North (22 majority); Newcastle-under-Lyme (30 majority); Crew and Nantwich (48 majority); and Canterbury (187 majority) - May would have been able to form a government without support from the Democratic Unionist Party, which won 10 seats.

(infos via The Independent)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm particularly enjoying/looking forward to more of this one

Walter Hinteler wrote:
the inter-conservative quarrels have already started: the Scottish Conservatives seem to have strong objections towards DUP
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:49 pm
Most striking about the Conservatives’ new stablemates is that after running a campaign based on fearmongering and whipping up false hysteria about Jeremy Corbyn and his alleged IRA sympathies, the Conservatives will enter government with the DUP, which is backed by the Ulster Defence Association (UDA).
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:53 pm
@centrox,
I'd always thought that the DUP is a nearly extremist party, similar Sinn Fein on the other side.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:56 pm
@centrox,
The Tories have no shame, Thatcher turned many a blind eye to loyalist terror/ corrupt police in NI. May is reverting to type, her supposed red toryism is already down the crapper.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 Jun, 2017 12:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I'd always thought that the DUP is a nearly extremist party, similar Sinn Fein on the other side.

During the Troubles, the DUP opposed attempts to resolve the conflict that would involve sharing power with Irish nationalists/republicans, and attempts to involve the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland affairs. It campaigned against the Sunningdale Agreement of 1974, the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, and the Good Friday Agreement of 1998. In the 1980s, the party was involved in attempts to create a paramilitary movement, which culminated in Ulster Resistance. The party is socially conservative: it is anti-abortion, opposes same-sex marriage, and formerly campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland. It is also Eurosceptic and backs the UK's withdrawal from the European Union. In other words, bastards.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:45 am
This Tory/DUP partnership is already off to a rocky start.

Quote:
Ruth Davidson has been told by the prime minister that any Conservative deal with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) will not affect LGBTI rights.
The Scottish Conservative leader, who is gay, plans to marry her partner in the near future.
The DUP opposes same-sex marriage, with Northern Ireland the only part of the UK where it is not legal.
Ms Davidson said she had been given an assurance that gay rights would not be eroded in return for DUP support.
In a tweet sent on Friday afternoon, Ms Davidson highlighted a speech she made in Belfast about the importance of equal marriage.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40229826
centrox
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jun, 2017 03:32 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Ruth Davidson

I know she's a Tory but there's a lot to like about Ruth. She is quite a joker as it goes.

"Labour’s still fumbling with its flies while the Tories are enjoying a post-coital cigarette after withdrawing our massive Johnson"

She had a go at Angela Leadsom after the latter referred to fictitious experiences and repeated said "being a mother" (Ruth is gay) was a significant accomplishment:

“Before politics not only was I a BBC journalist, I single handedly saved the British banking system during the Barings collapse, I piloted Apollo 13 back down to earth.

“A little-known fact is that I was the original Misha the bear at the 1980 Moscow Olympics, which is the same year that I won Eurovision, which, speaking as a mother, is a hard thing to do."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jun, 2017 03:39 am
@centrox,
She's the one who deserves the credit for Tory advances in Scotland. May put people off.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jun, 2017 06:06 am
Quote:
Cabinet ministers and a string of Conservative MPs are demanding that Theresa May sacks one or both of her closest advisers if she wants them to support her minority government, propped up by the Democratic Unionist party.


Several politicians told the Guardian that Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy, who act as the prime minister’s joint chiefs of staff in Downing Street, must take responsibility for the poor result, which saw the Tories lose their majority.

The pair were at the centre of recriminations flying back and forth between MPs on WhatsApp groups and even resulted in one cabinet minister branding the pair as “monsters who propped her up and sunk our party”.

It came as the prime minister met the chair of the Tories’ backbench 1922 committee, Graham Brady. She will address her party’s MPs next week, amid strong feelings about the poor showing in the election campaign.

Much of the anger centred on a manifesto policy on social care, drawn up by Timothy, along with Ben Gummer – the Cabinet Office minister who lost his seat – and policy chief John Godfrey, which resulted in a humiliating U-turn that tightened the polls.

When asked whether she was planning any personnel changes, May said she was focusing on forming a government but said those matters were for another day.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/09/tories-say-theresa-may-must-sack-advisers-fiona-hill-nick-timothy-monsters-sunk-party
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jun, 2017 06:57 am
Quote:
Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill, Theresa May's closest advisers, have resigned in the wake of the Conservatives' failure to win the general election.
The PM had been warned she faced a leadership challenge on Monday unless she sacked the pair, the BBC understands.
Mr Timothy said he accepted responsibility for his role in the Tory manifesto, criticised by many MPs.
He said he regretted not including a pledge to cap total social care costs.
The BBC's assistant political editor Norman Smith said the pair's departure bought the PM some "breathing space" following 24 hours of recriminations after the Conservatives lost their overall majority.
Mr Timothy and Ms Hill both stepped down amid mounting pressure on Mrs May to overhaul the way No 10 worked and broaden her circle of advisers.
Announcing his resignation on the Conservative Home website, Mr Timothy urged Tory MPs to "get behind" Mrs May but said nothing should be allowed to get in the way of the process of forming a government and beginning Brexit talks.
He said the Conservatives' failure to win was down to an "unexpected surge" of support for Labour and he conceded his party had failed to communicate a sufficiently "positive" message to voters and address their "frustrations" over years of austerity and inter-generational divisions, including over Brexit.
While defending the party's manifesto, he added: "I take responsibility for my part in this election campaign, which was the oversight of our policy programme.
"In particular, I regret the decision not to include in the manifesto a ceiling as well as a floor in our proposal to help meet the increasing cost of social care."
Labour has urged Mrs May to "make way" for it to form a government and she also faces criticism over the DUP deal.

The leader of the Scottish Conservatives, Ruth Davidson, tweeted a link to a speech she had made about same-sex marriage - something the DUP opposes.
A number of high-profile government figures have already confirmed they are keeping their jobs in the wake of an election that saw the Tories lose 13 seats.
Philip Hammond will stay as chancellor, Boris Johnson will remain as foreign secretary and Amber Rudd - narrowly re-elected as an MP after a recount - will continue as home secretary.
David Davis will also stay on as Brexit secretary and Sir Michael Fallon will keep his role as defence secretary.
There could be changes elsewhere in the cabinet while nine middle-ranking and junior ministers, including Ben Gummer and Jane Ellison, lost their seats at the general election and will need to be replaced.
But BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said the prime minister had been facing calls from MPs to remove her joint chiefs of staff, who have been blamed for the failure to win the election - and adopt a "very different approach and style of leadership".
Mrs May's director of communications until the election was announced, Katie Perrior, called the campaign "pretty dysfunctional", telling the BBC she "needed to broaden her circle of advisers and have a few grey hairs in there who been around a bit and could say 'don't do that'".
Norman Smith said he understood that senior Conservatives had warned the PM they would instigate a leadership contest at a meeting of Conservative backbenchers early next week if the pair did not leave, and were confident they could get the required 48 signatures to trigger a contest.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40231107
0 Replies
 
 

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