Bush's plan to turn America into an ownership society

george
why do you keep mentioning me up in Canada? What difference does it make where I am?

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I think the SS system is one big scam. Everyone pays into it but everyone gets more out of it then they pay in. When someone mentioned a pyramid scam they were right. If the want SS to work then they should work it the way unemployment works (before the 13 week extension), you only get out of it what you pay in. This would cause a better leveling of the field and force people to think ahead into the future to prevent them from getting stuck on limited funds.

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Baldimo wrote:

If the want SS to work then they should work it the way unemployment works (before the 13 week extension), you only get out of it what you pay in.

That would be a really raw deal. If you would have taken that sme money, and put it in the bank, over the years, the compounded interest would have yielded much more than what you put in.

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That is why we should let younger people do this. Let those that have paid into the system continue.

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Montana wrote:

george
why do you keep mentioning me up in Canada? What difference does it make where I am?

Because it is related to the question of paying payroll taxes here.

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Montana wrote:

Are we all forgetting that the main reason this is happening so suddenly is because of the massive amounts of money that the government has been taking from the pot?

This is incorrect. There is no pot. The money flows in from payroll taxes and flows out to beneficiaries.

Quote:

Also, the ones who say that people are living longer may be right, but what about the people who are dying younger and never see a dime in SS after working all their lives. .

Social Security money is the least of their problems- they're dead.

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georgeob1 wrote:

This is incorrect. There is no pot. The money flows in from payroll taxes and flows out to beneficiaries.

This is incorrect, there is a pot, SS rates and benefits are set separately, and for quite a while SS has gone in surpluss. That surpluss has been raided though.

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True, but there is no "raid"- the government merely changes one form of paper for another.

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Einherjar wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
This is incorrect. There is no pot. The money flows in from payroll taxes and flows out to beneficiaries.

This is incorrect, there is a pot, SS rates and benefits are set separately, and for quite a while SS has gone in surpluss. That surpluss has been raided though.

Yes.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Montana wrote:
george
why do you keep mentioning me up in Canada? What difference does it make where I am?

Because it is related to the question of paying payroll taxes here.

And how is that related? No matter where I am now, it doesn't change the fact that I paid my taxes in the US for 24 years, so what are you saying? Are you discriminating against me because I moved to another country? If not, then I don't see your point!

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She doesn't recieve the benefits either georgeob

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georgeob1 wrote:

True, but there is no "raid"- the government merely changes one form of paper for another.

Seems to me that the government changes a lot of things, but in the end, it's still stealing! They drained the SS pot and they don't give a rats ass who suffers because of it. How many elderly people will end up sick and homeless because of their government who robbed them of their only means to survive? How many Billions of dollars will be spent by the time Bush's bogus attack on a country that was no threat, is over? That bastard is pushing more elderly people out on the streets every minute and people still vote for him. Go figure!

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Montana wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
Montana wrote:
george
why do you keep mentioning me up in Canada? What difference does it make where I am?

Because it is related to the question of paying payroll taxes here.

And how is that related? No matter where I am now, it doesn't change the fact that I paid my taxes in the US for 24 years, so what are you saying? Are you discriminating against me because I moved to another country? If not, then I don't see your point!

How long do you expect to receive benefits? If you paid in to the system for 24 years how much do you think you paid in? Lets say you have paid in $10,000, if you get about $1,000 a month, then you didn't even pay into the system a full years worth of coverage. Your going to collect for more years then you put in on average; so tell me how this is fair?

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Calculate interest, then compare. That way you get a fair comparison.

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Einherjar wrote:

Calculate interest, then compare. That way you get a fair comparison.

Since when did interest play a part in SS? If that is the case, then they should apply interest to unemployment as well.

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Baldimo wrote:

How long do you expect to receive benefits? If you paid in to the system for 24 years how much do you think you paid in? Lets say you have paid in $10,000, if you get about $1,000 a month, then you didn't even pay into the system a full years worth of coverage. Your going to collect for more years then you put in on average; so tell me how this is fair?

Baldimo wrote:

Einherjar wrote:
Calculate interest, then compare. That way you get a fair comparison.

Since when did interest play a part in SS? If that is the case, then they should apply interest to unemployment as well.

I meant that comparing payments into SS with payments out of SS was unfair since the alternative would have been investing the money, in which case you would get more out as well.

What is interesting is wether or not paying into SS is profitable compared to investing the same amount of money. If it is not, then nobody is reciving a free ride.

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Einherjar wrote:

She doesn't recieve the benefits either georgeob

So what? I don't see either your point or the relevance of the comment.

She will receive them when she becomes eligible under exactly the same rules as apply to US residents.

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Alright then, I don't see how that affects her argument though.

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Montana wrote:

Seems to me that the government changes a lot of things, but in the end, it's still stealing! They drained the SS pot and they don't give a rats ass who suffers because of it. How many elderly people will end up sick and homeless because of their government who robbed them of their only means to survive? How many Billions of dollars will be spent by the time Bush's bogus attack on a country that was no threat, is over? That bastard is pushing more elderly people out on the streets every minute and people still vote for him. Go figure!

There is no pot and nothing was drained.

There is no right or entitlement to any fixed sum of money either expressed or implied in the laws governing Social Security. While you may want to believe that you and others who live here "own" something in a "pot" it is simply a verifiable legal fact that you don't.

What has been "stolen" from you? You will become eligible for social security under exactly the same terms as another in exactly in your situation who happens to live here. The only difference is that the American resident is still paying the payroll tax and you are not. Perhaps that person feels that you have stolen something from her. What is your answer to that?

Unemployment in this country is lower than in any of the other G-7 nations - and it is still decreasing.. There has been no reduction or cutback in Social Security benefits under President Bush, so I do not understand what you are talking about with the "... pushing more elderly people out ..." bit. Moreover the majority of Americans currently reaching retirement age have other sources of income besides Social Security.

President Bush is not a bastard as far as I know. Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

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George, Let's look at it this way. If your rich relative left you a big inheritance via a trust fund, and someone raided that fund without authorization, wouldn't you be a wee bit upset? The government has no business borrowing money from Social Security that they never intend to pay back. That money does NOT belong to the Federal Government.

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Bush's plan to turn America into an ownership society

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