Bush supporters' aftermath thread

So true JW. No matter what religious bigots choose to make of it, Chrsitianity now is not the Christianity of the Crusades or the Inquisition. No matter what the spouters of ad hominems spew out eternally, the U.S. south is no longer a hotbed of racist points of view and those damned Yankees don't believe in sweat shops and child labor anymore either.

The fact that there has never been peace in the Middle East is the lamest possible excuse to believe it can't happen. Humankind evolves, we learn, and we get better with time and experience.

I believe our president's vision will see much fruit in our lifetime if we are willing for it to happen.

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Foxfyre wrote:

"Osama bin Laden and Zarqawi both know that free-election democracy is the death knell of terrorism. They also know that the potential impact of free Iraqi elections on the rest of the region -- including Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia -- is incalculable. The Iraqi elections will reverberate throughout the entire Muslim world, including Indonesia, Malaysia, and the whole South Asian tsunami zone.

Sophisticated policy observers know full well that rather than plotting a worldwide military invasion, Bush is constructing a statement of principles; that he is setting new standards and diplomatic benchmarks that will govern our foreign policy for decades to come.

Polling and reports on the ground in Iraq indicate there will be a blowout turnout for Sunday's election. The Iraqi election results for a new government and constitution-writing parliament will produce a pluralistic coalition that will end fears of a mullah-based theocracy or any return of Saddamite Baathism.

Bush's inaugural vision will be proven right. His speech will be vindicated, and along with it will come a foreign-policy triumph of moral idealism, human rights, and freedom over the cynical "realist" view that after all we have seen in the past 25 years we can still do business with dictators and despots in the name of stability."
http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-1_29_05_LK.html

For goodness sakes...Bill Bennett's site is just the place to go for your objective information on what's going on. "Polling and reports on the ground"? Polling of whom done by whom and verified by whom? It's so unsafe even for Iraq-experienced reporters than they can get almost nowhere and talk to very few people.

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I think the prospects of democracy in Iraq deserve a new thread. I found a good analysis of the odds that Iraq has to develop into a democratic country that I will post in a separate thread. I don't know how to link to it here, but well, it's out there somewhere.

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Try this thread Dagmaraka. That's where most of the action on the events unfolding in Iraq is:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27940&highlight=

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i know, but that one is not about the prospects of democracy in Iraq. Discussions there focus more on U.S., UN, etc. and not on tangible possibilities within Iraq itself. I will not go back to that thread, it is chronically ridden with squabbles of little use.

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O'Bill wrote:

... Pay no attention to the doomsayers.

Be fair now ... give 'em their due. Lets take just a moment here and tally their successes ... hmmmmm .... well, now, that didn't take very long at all, did it? The most propitious indicator of the probable success of the upcoming Iraqi elections is the crowd that seems to look forward to a less-than-satisfactory outcome. Them folks have an unblemished, if unenviable, track record in such regard.

Quote:

... It is funny how they think the other side is delusional though isn't it? ...

Indeed it is. We can only hope they persist; its workin' real well, just not to their credit or benefit.

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JustWonders wrote:

"In its most dramatic response yet to new Palestinian policies against violence, Israel ordered its army Friday to stop offensive operations in the Gaza Strip and scale them back sharply in the West Bank.

The army was ordered to stop targeted killings and arrests of wanted Palestinian militants unless they present an immediate threat to Israeli lives, to lift an unspecified number of roadblocks in the West Bank to ease movement and to reopen all three crossings into the Gaza Strip.

The Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, said Thursday night: "I believe that the conditions are now ripe to allow us and the Palestinians to reach a historic breakthrough in the relations between us."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/01/28/news/mideast.html

It's the best news in years, perhaps decades.

It deserves equal time as an event of international significance on par with the Iraqi elections tomorrow.

It's off-topic on this thread, though. Start another so we can discuss it there.

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PD - really? You don't think it's a bit premature? Of course, I'm right there with Sharon in wanting to believe that if the concessions are equal on both sides, real progress can be made.

The reason I think it may be premature is this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1401295,00.html

The Palestinians, especially those in Gaza, support Hamas and its ideology over anybody, it would seem, and that includes Abbas.

What do you think?

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timberlandko wrote:

O'Bill wrote:
... Pay no attention to the doomsayers.

Be fair now ... give 'em their due. Lets take just a moment here and tally their successes ... hmmmmm .... well, now, that didn't take very long at all, did it? The most propitious indicator of the probable success of the upcoming Iraqi elections is the crowd that seems to look forward to a less-than-satisfactory outcome. Them folks have an unblemished, if unenviable, track record in such regard.

Quote:
... It is funny how they think the other side is delusional though isn't it? ...

Indeed it is. We can only hope they persist; its workin' real well, just not to their credit or benefit.

WARNING! THIN ICE.

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Timber:

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Reaching back back back to timber's predictions on WOMD and floral greetings to yanqui soldiers....

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I can see the WMD prediction, but I'm guessing your floral suggestion, really is a reach...

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Well, timber is a guy's guy (not in the navy sense of that, of course) and so he doesn't mention flowers much, but no, I'm not reaching.

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Guys. Navy. Flowers. Reach.

"And so the conversation turned,
until the sun went down,
and many fantasies were learned..."

(thanks, Human League)

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BTW-- many soldiers WERE greeted with flowers--and hugs--and invitations to dinner-- Horrific as that is to some...

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blatham wrote:

Reaching back back back to timber's predictions on WOMD and floral greetings to yanqui soldiers....

Find 'em and drag 'em out.

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Hell. If I was of the liberal persuasion--I don't think I'd have the nerve to say "Told you so" about anything.

You guys are definitely in free fall.

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Lash wrote:

Hell. If I was of the liberal persuasion--I don't think I'd have the nerve to say "Told you so" about anything.

You guys are definitely in free fall.

Hell, I'm an old crusty liberal that has been in freefall ever since Nixon ran his campaign on his "secret plan to end the war in Vietnam" well after another 125,000 US dead he gave us "peace with honor" and I can easily recall the film clips in my mind of the fall of Saigon, you remember those Lash? I'm sure Timber does. Wanna talk about it?

Bush supporters' aftermath thread

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