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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:09 pm
Link to that tire story jp?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:09 pm
Yup, that slasher story made National press. That was probably the work of frustrated kids who can't vote. Mighty industrial of um eh?

90% is nuts though! I hadn't heard that.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:11 pm
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2004/11/02/bushflag.gif

<G>
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:14 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Link to that tire story jp?



looking for link...
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:15 pm
Congratulations from TNUSA.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/melpross/b89cda9f.jpg
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:19 pm
Holy crap. 93% turnout expected!
Source

Slasher story.

How long are these chumps gonna stretch their 15 minutes?
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:24 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:


How long are these chumps gonna stretch their 15 minutes?


My guess is at least 4 more years.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:26 pm
Laughing Eh, that's not what I meant. Laughing
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 12:51 pm
Ah, another quadrennial Presidential season comes to a close, and the Democratic Party is defeated. Though many here are convinced that this Republican victory spells doom for the country, that isn't likely. I expect that the existing trends will continue pretty much as they were. The economy will continue to recover, slowly. The National Debt will continue to soar as the nation struggles to defeat international radical Islamic terrorists, and establish stability in Iraq. American soldiers will remain overseas carrying out difficult tasks. Iran and DPRK will continue to thumb their noses at UN and international demands that they foreswear building nuclear stockpiles. The price of oil will remain high. Domestic issues like abortion, gay marriages, stem cell research, etc. will continue to be an obsession with many American citizens. The most extreme partisans of the left will continue to agitate and obstruct administration policies.

There almost certainly will not be unity and tranquility on the American political horizons. That's alright. It's also the "norm" in American political history. One of the great errors of the Federalist Party in the years leading up to the Revolution of 1800, was our commitment to "unity and citizen tranquility". While Washington and Adams worked tirelessly to compromise and include the "best" without regard to Party, the Democratic-Republicans built a strong base by the same infamous appeals that we've just witnessed. The Federalists biggest error was the Alien and Sedition Acts, an attempt to forcibly insure "non-malicious, truthful utterances" about political figures. Even so we might have won the 1800 election if Hamilton hadn't weakened the Party from within by his disloyalty to Adams. Oh well, we were driven into extinction by opposing the Jeffersonian War Hawks who got us into that ghastly War of 1812.

Shrill partisans from the principal political parties have ever since dominated the Nation. Quincy Adams, the last Federalist won a close election in the House of Representatives, though Jackson had a huge lead in the popular vote. Jackson was one of the nation's most popular Presidents, but the opposition to him and his administration was every bit as bitter as we seen today in the most radical Democrats. The whole nation remained at odds, split between the plantation/slave culture of the South and the industrial/progressive North. The Democrats of the Old South believed in States Rights, and the Whigs saw America's future in the development of its natural resources that could only be accomplished by national government and investment. There was strong opposition to the Mexican War, and both political parties exploited that war for their own advantage. President Polk was the target of political smears, and he in turn managed the war to strengthen his party at the expense of the opposition. The nation was never so divided as it was in 1862, and hopefully The Late Unpleasantness will never reoccur.

There was no unanimity in the country after the question of secession was decisively settled in 1865. The defeated Democrats of the South found means of subverting the extension of civil rights to their liberated slaves. The gap between the rich and the very poor was far greater than it is today, and there were virtually no federal constraints on how monopoly and Trust businesses were run. Farmers were exploited by railroads, and the legislative branch was pretty much owned by the big wheelers and dealers. There was great dissatisfaction within the poorer laboring classes over child labor, long working hours, lack of job security, and the lack of opportunity. Folks who were dissatisfied with the way the country was run settled the West, and they held very divergent ideas about how the government should be run than those who stayed behind in the East.

The Spanish-American War was popular with the American People whose emotions had been stirred up by the Yellow Press, but the nation was sharply divided over what the government did with the spoils of war. Current fears about the creation of an American "Empire" are nothing compared to the opposition to holding the Philippine Islands as a "Protectorate". Those who are appalled at the difficulties faced in Iraq have forgotten the long and bitter struggle that had to be fought against Philippine nationalists like Aguinaldo. Aguinaldo wasn't a terrorist and his struggle against American domination was far more justified than we see in Iraq. Opposition to the Administration was very strong and divisive. The brutalities that occurred during the Philippine Insurrection are a continuing stain on the reputation of our military forces. If todays ubiquitous media had been around to show the day to day realities of that struggle, one can easily imagine greater opposition than there was during the most divisive period during the Vietnam era. In the end the insurrection was put down, and the foundations of a democratic society were put in place. When the U.S. pulled out and the Philippines became fully independent in 1946, the nation had made great strides towards democratic government.

WWI didn't bring unity and reduction in political partisanship either. Opponents to the war led strikes and engaged in sabotage to cripple the war effort. That's what the Democratic Wilson claimed anyway as he imposed some of the most restrictive measures over our public liberties since the suspension of Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. US military troops were put in charge of the railroads, and miners were forced back into the mines. Dissenting political opinion was "discouraged" and raids were staged against organizations that opposed our involvement in WWI. FDR mobilized the opposition to Hoover's apparent inability to deal with the Great Depression, and gained the White House. Today folks remember how loved FDR was, but at the time he was the target of some of the most outlandish attacks imaginable. We still hear some spin the conspiracy theory that FDR was somehow behind the attack on Pearl Harbor. During WWII the nation did come together and partisanship seemed to be set on the back burner, but the day the war ended the nation was again rife with political bickering.

The Cold War (1944-1992) was a time when our traditional ideas about what war is were challenged. There was no "declared war' and most of the fighting and dying was done by clients in remote marginal areas. Every administration during the Cold War faced opposition. JFK was a hero to many of us, but to others he was almost evil incarnate. "Evil incarnate" is how many regarded LBJ and Nixon, but both had their supporters and both won election by huge margins. "Evil Incarnate" is how many regarded LBJ and Nixon, but both had their supporters and both won election by huge margins. I think most of us liked Ford and Carter, but neither administration was particularly noted for its unanimity and domestic consensus about how the nation should be governed. The opposition to Reagan was widespread, vehement and predicted that the sky would fall due to his economics and devotion to building a strong military. They were wrong. The Soviets collapsed and the economy shifted into high gear. Who can forget the doom-sayers when Bush sent our forces into the Gulf? Clinton got elected on economic issues and was the darling of the left, but the nation was still divided and those who hated Clinton was just as large as the number who currently hate Bush.

We briefly had national consensus after 9/11, but this war is far different from the one that raged from 1941-1945. This is much more like the Cold War; even with all the media coverage, it seems remote from the daily lives of most Americans. The most rabid opposition likes to portray the threat as so small and the costs so high, that we should all agree that the administration is filled with liars, conspirators, and megalomaniacs. We have been, and will continue to hear extravagant claims that our Constitutional government is in grave danger, and that "insiders" started and continue the war to enrich themselves out of the public coffers. There will be enough truth, as there always is, to keep the hounds baying for blood. Such is the political history and political environment of a free society. This is not our weakness, nor even a threat to our liberty. It is our strength and the proof that there is room for diversity. It is the impetus that keeps Americans politically active as they strive to advance their own partisan interests. One of the clues that our system of government is endangered will be when there is no strong and partisan opposition parties in the land. To daily hear the most outrageous calumnies slung at our representatives is distressing, it gives heart to our enemies, but it is the canaries song that tells us the air of liberty is still strong and breathable.

BTW, I'm very pleased that the American electorate agrees with my take on which of the candidates would best serve our national interests for the next four years. I'm sure our enemies are disheartened, and hopefully they will be less motivated to attack our citizens. We will stay the course, and that is in my opinion an important message to send the world. Elections in Iraq will take place. There will be no military draft in the U.S. Taxes will not be cranked upward, and the economy will be controlled as little as possible in the modern world. Kerry might not have changed a thing, but just the possibility that the handwringing left might have seized control of the nation's policies did cause us a moment's anxiety. Whooa!
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 01:01 pm
Great post, Asherman. Thanks!
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 01:01 pm
Well said, Asherman. As usual.
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Armyvet35
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 01:26 pm
Im pleased... no gloating needed. To take the electorate and popular vote was needed and Bush came through.

I feel great confidence that the next four years will be better for all.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 01:42 pm
Amazing as usual Asherman. A joy just to read your perspective.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:06 pm
I'm not in any mood to gloat. We just gave the devil a shot at taking over our country and we got lucky. Clearly fortune cannot favor the nation which makes a habit of that.

The democrat party must be destroyed. The choice on the ballot cannot be between rational people whose political agenda might or might not be meaningful to you, and pure evil.
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:10 pm
Thank you Asherman!! Great post.
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A Lone Voice
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:11 pm
My only comment at this time is this: For the last couple of years, liberals have told us that we are right wingers, out of the mainstream, a far right branch.....

Well guess what? We are the mainstream!

I've always said that the libs, the media, both coasts, and the rest of the liberal elite have no clue about what is real in America.

The Democratic Party is on its last leg, just barely twitching. And the best thing about the way they think and run campaigns?

They will probably run Hillary in 2008!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..................................
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:14 pm
A Lone Voice wrote:
My only comment at this time is this: For the last couple of years, liberals have told us that we are right wingers, out of the mainstream, a far right branch.....

Well guess what? We are the mainstream!

I've always said that the libs, the media, both coasts, and the rest of the liberal elite have no clue about what is real in America.

The Democratic Party is on its last leg, just barely twitching. And the best thing about the way they think and run campaigns?

They will probably run Hillary in 2008!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..................................




Like I say, that to me is not cause to cheer or celebrate. Having 40 or 48% of the people in the country walking around in a permanent state of despair and anger is not healthy. I'd much rather eliminate the cause of their insanity (the democrat party) and allow them to return to productive and useful lives.
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:14 pm
Gungasnake,

Trying to eliminate the opposition party is foolishness. Remember the Alien and Sedition Acts. Just that sort of thinking doomed my party, the Federalists. Active partisanship is part and parcel of effective modern politics in America, and to have it any other way would be a grave danger to the system. What is much more dangerous to our liberty is if the Democratic Party continues to field marginal candidates. Could they survive a Hillery for President campaign run against a moderate Republican? I'd like to see Collin Powell as the Republican candidate in 2008, and bring on the Democratic Party's finest.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:16 pm
The basic reality is that if republicans in 42 had ever conducted themselves the way the dems have conducted themselves during this election and for the last year, the republican party would have been outlawed and banned and its leaders rounded up and put in cages, and the bars welded shut.
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Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 02:34 pm
No, that would have been the end of the Democratic Party. In 1942 the war against the Axis Powers was so immediately threatening to the American public that opposition to it would have been the death knell for any politician. FDR didn't need to use excessive government controls against opposition because there wasn't any significant opposition.

The far better example is found in the Democratic-Republican attacks on John Adams and the Federalists from 1795-1800. Washington was described as having a thirst for a crown, and as a puppet of the British. The Jay Treaty was denounced as a sellout. Jefferson and Galatin were espousing the fiery equality sought by the Jacobins, by minimizing the bloodier aspects of The Terror. Democratic Clubs met and denounced the national government, and urged tax revolt. Newspaper articles with some of the greatest lies and distortions in American journalistic history mocked and attacked Federalist government.

Adams and the Federalists rose to the bait. They saw a grave threat to our Constitutional liberties if the Democratic-Republican attacks weren't curbed. They passed the Sedition Act and tried to enforce it. What they got was like pouring gasoline on a fire. In 1800 the Federalists were replaced by Jefferson, though Hamilton's spoiler-act probably had more to do with the Federalist loss than the Sedition Act. Our Federalist Party staggered along for awhile, and then fell into virtual extinction.

I'd like to see a resurgence of the Federalist Party, but that is very unlikely.
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