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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 08:00 pm
He? Hmmm. Well, he quoted it, so that's hard to believe.
0 Replies
 
Magginkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 08:09 pm
Winning team?
Foxfyre wrote:
I don't feel like gloating as winning comes with huge responsibilities and we on the winnin team must be ever vigilant to both support our elected leaders--.



Tis a shame....... that is no winning team. Everything points to brazen, blatant fraud and this comes from someone who did not like Kerry.

What a shame that we are stuck with a person who has probably never won an honest election in his life. A bigger shame that he has no shame either for stealing elections or the purely assinine decisions he has made not to mention the number of people murdered because of those decisions and lies.

I feel that we are doomed.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 08:17 pm
Re: Winning team?
Welcome to A2K, Magginkat!



Say... don't I know you from somewhere?




http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/graphics/Tinfoil1.jpg
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 09:05 pm
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/images/bigjet1.jpg

This is a photo of the Ukrainian Antonov An-225 - said to be the largest aircraft currently flying - leaving Baghdad Airport for home after having dropped off ballot materials for the upcoming Iraq elections (think they're expecting a large turnout? Smile)

Greyhawke of Mudville Gazette writes....

The idea of a nation like Iraq producing a machine like the AN-225 seems a bit unlikely, but here you have an example of a nation that does have the capability to produce such a thing using it to help build one that does not. A nation just recently freed from the boot heel of an oppressive regime (the Soviet Union), a nation that recently experienced a free election and now seeks its place in the free world, using a tangible symbol of its own potential to assist in the amazing adventure that is the re-building of Iraq. To take that one step further, a nation still on the brink of its own future willing to participate in an endeavor to bring democracy to a part of the world that has known too few examples of freedom for the past few thousand years.

The symbolism is inescapable, unavoidable. Democracy is being delivered from a nation that has had only a brief experience with it.

Will they soon withdraw from the cause? That is their right. They have done their bit where others shied away. They have their own nation to build, and their willingness to participate in building another at this point in their history deserves nothing but respect.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 09:51 pm
Good stuff JW, thanks!

Reza Pahlavi did On the Record with Greta Van Susteren today and was insisting that if the world came together to press for a democracy in Iran, the powers that be would switch gears and force it themselves instead of facing defeat. He seemed to think Bush has the credibility to force a change without force. Exciting times we live in. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/party/party-smiley-017.gif
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 10:16 pm
Wouldn't that be something?! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/party/party-smiley-017.gif
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 11:00 pm
JustWonders wrote:
A Canadian with a Spine

Our nation fails to differentiate between democracies and despots

I see Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew as a Trudeau-style dilettante and a fob. Basically, a wine-sipping boulevardier, without Maurice Chevalier's talent or charm. Within a week or so, Pettigrew is set to release a new policy review on where our nation should stand in world affairs. Do we hypocritically continue to treat both free democracies and brutal dictatorships with "moral equivalency" -- closing our eyes to the evils of dictatorships -- or get some backbone and start forcing dictatorships to respect human rights?

Conservative Foreign Affairs Critic Stockwell Day, who knows Pettigrew reasonably well, will be looking intensely at where the newly-appointed minister stands on the issue. In the column "Day shines." (Jan. 11) I talked about my recent chat with Day and how the former Canadian Alliance leader is appalled at shipping tycoon Paul Martin's lackadaisical performance on all issues, and especially foreign affairs. Martin's regime has been going down the same road in foreign affairs as his predecessors Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chretien. The mantra of all three: Ignore our friends; embrace our enemies. Sacrifice Israel, curry favour with the sheiks.

...


Well, JW taps into Canada's right wing crowd. Congratulations. Perhaps your next holiday, you'll consider spending some of your tax dollars in the Great White (soon to be Red) North. Home away from home, but with maple syrup fit for the gods and many available lumberjacks.

But before you pop by, you ought to be advised that Stockwell isn't held in very high esteem up here. Imagine Li'l Abner, but impotent.

Quote:
Toronto lawyer Warren Kinsella, the whiz-kid genius who was so important in the Liberal's political backroom in the last federal election was seen hanging around outside the prime minister's second-floor suite of offices after Question Period Tuesday afternoon.

Kinsella, known during the past decade for his relentless war in print and in speech against bigots, racists and white supremacists, has lately turned his attack against the hard right.

In the last election campaign Kinsella went after Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day, after the preacher-turned-politician made the mistake of voicing his creationist views publicly, explaining that dinosaurs and humans had co-existed at the same time on earth.
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSPolitics0103/27_cleroux-can.html
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 06:45 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
FreeDuck, I think your sig line is spot on. I answer honestly, with crystal clarity, so you repeat the question? Is that supposed to be funny or are you being deliberately obtuse? I no longer care if it's deliberate or not.


Bill, I read your post. I'm sure it was honest and it might have been clear, but it didn't address the fundamental question I was asking at all. I'm sure this is because you and I apparently speak and read two entirely different languages. Let's just leave it at that.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 06:51 am
BTW, thanks, Foxfyre, for your reply. It is appreciated. I think the question is that much harder to answer when it isn't clear what it really means to support the troops. I will continue to ponder it.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 07:20 am
You're welcome Freeduck though I think Bill's response was spot on accurate. To support the troops you don't have to agree to the purpose for which they are deployed, but you do have to know that they follow orders and, once deployed, you demand they receive the best possible material and emotional/psychological support available, and you don't tie their hands making the best possible outcome of their mission difficult or impossible, and you allow them their pride in the good that they do.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 07:34 am
Foxfyre wrote:
You're welcome Freeduck though I think Bill's response was spot on accurate. To support the troops you don't have to agree to the purpose for which they are deployed, but you do have to know that they follow orders and, once deployed, you demand they receive the best possible material and emotional/psychological support available, and you don't tie their hands making the best possible outcome of their mission difficult or impossible, and you allow them their pride in the good that they do.


Ah. I guess I felt it was pretty obvious that I wasn't talking about blaming the troops or actively preventing them from having a good outcome. But if I don't believe that what they're doing is good, I have a hard time putting a ribbon on my car. I guess I see a difference between doing the opposite of support, whatever that may be (rejecting, blaming them?), and abstaining from support. Maybe it's a fine distinction.

But I've derailed the thread long enough.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 08:45 am
Tico:-Well.

You Yanks have my 100% support.
We need you man.
You need us too but not to the same extent.
You would be surprised at the pro-US feeling here.
I know our media don't reflect it but they have their own agenda.
Take it from me that at the grass roots,where I am,we are with you.We admire you too.

But you are a nation and we are a nation and there is a degree of anarchy in such relations.Some say there's nothing else.Hence the UN.
The last thing you need is fawning support.Possibly you are too close to the trees to see the wood.

I don't agree with blatham's views on the US.We have some literary empathies and he's in tight with Lola who is my No1 threader.Just watch me take her to the right.Assuming she doesn't bolt.

The difference here is one of realpolitik.

My first sexual stirrings (oh how innocent I was) were accompanied by the likes of Barbara Stanwyk and Rita Hayworth and Doris Day ans Mae West.English actresses were tame.Little women.In Seven Year Itch Ewell was adapting Little Women for a TV programme.Presumably juicing her up a bit.And your all-American heroes were mine too.Action man.Formative experiences count.They can't be overestimated.Culturally I'm a Yank.You have taken my references too lightly.I was meaning I got them almost with Mama's milk.I'm only on one site and it's a western American one.

But I will admit to being an internationalist now.

You should see my library Tico.Mailer,Burroughs,Salinger,Heller,Kennedy,
Nixon,Kissinger,Veblen,Galbraith,Pound,Menken,Dylan,loads more.Shelves full.I bet I could put you to shame.

I didn't say "anyone else".I said "you lot".

I hope there's no suggestion that being critical.which I wasn't,constitutes lack of support.Criticism is essential.That's what has done for Saddam.It does for anybody who lacks it.What a fool Saddam was.We can't have fools like that sitting on vast oil reserves.There's a world to be cleaned up.

And I'm no liberal either.You can dismiss that idea.I'm for what works best.But thought through.

I did not malign Mr Bush's motives.I would have done had I thought he wasn't as I said.I know you only said "appear" but I will even deny that.The motives I gave are sound.The sooner you penetrate every market the better.And us of course.Our destinies are linked.

Obviously Mr Bush is at the mercy of economic forces.He is engaged in the art of the possible.
Obviously your nation's motives are selfish.Every other nation is the same.You would be daft to be otherwise.Principles don't come into realpolitik.
You do need to counter cheap labour competition.That's what your civil war was about wasn't it?And so do we.The alternative is unthinkable.

Your power is derivative.All power is.Some say our power derives from abundance of oak trees.The factors I gave are true.There are others of course.
You didn't have aristocratic drag which allowed the natural entrepreneurial spirit a free run.

You would be refused membership of the EEC because you have capital punishment.We won't have that as Turkey just discovered.

Mr Bush's inaugural would have been heckled off the floor of the House of Commons for jam spreading.You won't have Kyoto and Geneva is undermined in Cuba.I never took a position on either.Your "middle" class does have a distaste for manual labour (see Veblen).

I think you tend to see Jan 2005 as some fixed point.Actually it is simply the "now" point in a continuum which I have hopes for and most,not all,of those hopes are on your shoulders.

On tone,I am a bit Rummie I'll admit but he is pretty highly thought of here as well which is why he is sill there.Mr Bush might have his ear a bit closer to the ground than most but he should have as the President.Straight shooting is okay by me.

If you are a Hon Mancunian I presume you will watching the big match tonight.
Why the hell don't you play cricket and football (soccer) at the top level.There's a good thread for you.

Regards.

spendius.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 08:54 am
JW:-

Are you sure that aeroplane is Ukrainian?

spendius.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 09:21 am
Spendius:

Thanks for the reply. It appears I misread your initial post, and I appreciate your response and clarification of your "tone" and meaning.

spendius wrote:
If you are a Hon Mancunian I presume you will watching the big match tonight.

Stateside Hon. Mancunians aren't necessarily privy to international soccer (football) viewing. And I don't have satellite. Anyway, as a true Hon. Mancunian, my team is City, not United. Wink

spendius wrote:
Why the hell don't you play cricket and football (soccer) at the top level.There's a good thread for you.

I do play soccer at the highest level there is in my city. It's indoor season now, and my Sunday game pitted my team against a team comprised of current and former professionals. We lost 3-2.

But what is this thread of which you speak?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 09:33 am
Spendius:

Here are two threads on that topic ....

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1129282#1129282

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=966346#966346
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 10:17 am
I picked up a different meaning than what you obviously intended too, Spendius, and appreciate your expanding on your thoughts.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 10:19 am
Tico:-

I gotta blow.I'll check in tomorrow.I like the cigar.
I do roll-ups.Smokers of the world unite.

spendius.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 11:22 am
The French are depressed (gasp). They are pessimists wracked with self-doubt and unable to see a positive future. They "no longer believe in anything". Who would say such a thing, you ask? Well, they did.

THE SCOTSMAN
Sat 22 Jan 2005

Self-doubt leaves French feeling down in the mouth

SUSAN BELL
IN PARIS

IT IS official: the French are a nation of depressed pessimists, wracked with self-doubt and unable to see a positive future.

This gloomy portrait of the current state of Gallic morale - or rather the lack of it - was made public yesterday in a damning report by France's prefects, the country's top administrators.

"The French no longer believe in anything," the report said. "That is the reason that the situation is relatively calm, for they believe that it is not even worthwhile expressing their opinions or trying to be heard any more."

The country's 100 prefects went on to use the words "lifelessness", "resignation", "anxiety" and "pessimism" to describe the attitudes they believe prevail in France today.

The report, which is dated December 2004 but has only just been made public, would appear to be contradicted by the three days of strikes launched by public sector workers this week.

However, analysts point to the fact that disillusionment and apathy are so great that not even France's formerly powerful unions were able to predict the turnout for the strike. Opinion polls show that 65 per cent of the French support the strikers, leading observers to say that the country is showing its discontent by proxy via the strikers.

"It's a fact: France and the French are pessimists," said Alain Duhamel, a respected French commentator.

He said: "The French doubt themselves and worry about the future. They do so more than the citizens of neighbouring countries, even when those neighbouring countries are doing less well than we are and have a more negative future ahead.

"France has been anxious about its future, about its way of life, for the last 30 years, ever since the employment crisis and doubts about identity, ever since the absence of clear perspectives and collective projects."

Politicians agree that the French are particularly upset about the drop in their purchasing power, which has led to strong group pessimism even if individual confidence is quite high.

This fear for the country's economic future is illustrated by the fact that the French are among the most assiduous savers in the world, putting aside an average of 16 per cent of their income.

Pierre Taribo, writing in L'Est Républicain, agreed with Mr Duhamel. He wrote: "One is forced to say that the French no longer believe in very much. Confronted with the reality of an open economy, clearly showing less and less appetite for politics, they are disillusioned and doubt everything from Chirac to the government and the Right, which is accused of every ill, to the Left, which has no projects, and the unions, whose activism no longer inspires a reflex of blind adhesion."

All this gloom could have serious repercussions. Jacques Chirac's centre-right government fears that widespread pessimism could have a negative effect on the referendum on the European Union constitution scheduled for later this year.

The prefects' report also warned that it played into the hands of the extreme right-wing National Front party.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 11:38 am
JustWonders wrote:
The French are depressed (gasp).


They really are. And indeed, The Scotsman, your source for above publishes the following day:

Quote:
Depressed Man Lost for 35 Days in Underground Caves

By Karen Attwood, PA

A 48-year-old man who spent 35 days lost in a labyrinthine grotto surviving on clay and wood is today relaxing at his home in France home thanks to a teachers' strike.

Following a bout of depression, Jean-Luc Josuat wanted to spend some time alone so went into the cave in south western France with a bottle of whisky and some snacks, French newspapers report.

But he was unable to find his way out of the grotto, a three mile maze once used to grow mushrooms and was forced to spend over a month in total darkness.

Wrapping himself in a bit of plastic to keep warm, Josuat drank grotto water and ate clay and wood to survive.

Finally three teenagers who had taken advantage of a teachers' strike last Thursday to explore the cave found Josuat's jeep near the entrance.

Police were notified and a team of 20 officers found him, thin and weak but alive.

He was taken to hospital for a few hours before returning to his home in Vic-en-Bigorre, in the Hautes-Pyrenees region.

Josuat had entered the grotto on December 18, police said. He then began exploring the underground labyrinth on foot and got lost.

One of the police officers said Josuat looked like a mummy coming towards him. He has been named "the miracle of the gloom" by French newspapers.

Josuat told the press he had not panicked or cried but had instead "been singing".

His wife Ginou said her husband had lost 39.5lbs during the drama but added that extra weight he had put on in recent months probably helped him to survive.
Source
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 11:48 am
Hmmmm. Anyone want to take up a collection to send them some old Jerry Lewis DVDs?
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