Bush supporters' aftermath thread

flushd wrote:

JustWonders,

YooHOO!! Hey, over here!!
I was asking a legit. q.

What part of my answer did you not understand?

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Just Wonders- You are not alone. There is expert opinion backing you.
The expert opinion is not coming from the far right or from Karl Rove or from the RNC. The expert opinion is coming from Senator Liberman of Conn.-A Democrat who just happened to be the Vice Presidential candidate in 2000.

He thinks there is real progress in Iraq. In the meantime, there is news from Afghanistan. A new poll there showed that nearly 80% of the people liked the direction of the government and about 75% thought that it was a good thing to have American troops on their soil. There will be a reduction in troop force of American forces in six months because NATO will be sending troops to patrol a goodly section of the country.

Those people who worry about our soldiers being killed---Every life is important and precious. In World War II, we lost 292,000 soldiers.

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Re Spitzer, Dean, "victory" or not...

There's very little of reality in this dance, and much which is strategy, language and presentation of desired reality. Dean walked into a trap (that's Dana Millbank's very bright observation).

The value of using a word like "victory" as Bush and the Repubs are using it now (do a word count of the uses of 'victory' in any speech or Repub-agent column over the last week and compare with two months ago) relates to it's positiveness.

Of course, just what it means is highly re-definable later on (as Johnston was advised, "declare victory, and leave"). Bush is going to pull troops out before the next election, and more before the Presidential election too. The costs of maintaining the level of obligation are too high, the military is hurting badly, and Republican power is doomed if polling trends continue (american deaths, poor results in Iraq, costs). What Bush is going to do is not different from what many Dems advocate.

But there's also a very clever below-the-radar function to this PR line using 'victory'. It immediately places the Dems, or those who argue for troop dropdown/removal as the oppositive of what 'victory' implies...'failure', 'loser', etc.

"The Dems want America to lose" or "want the troops to lose" or "can't conceive of anything but America losing", etc becomes the PR mantra possibility with this strategy. And just listen/read for it, because it's exactly what is happening.

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flushd wrote:

JustWonders wrote:
We won the war in Iraq. A long time ago. The terrorists are making the reconstruction long and tedious, but we'll prevail in that, too.

What do you base this on? Do you have first-hand knowledge that the rest of us don't?

I agree with JW.
We did win the war.
And before you ask,yes I do have first hand knowledge.
I WAS THERE.

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blatham wrote:

There's very little of reality in this dance, and much which is strategy, language and presentation of desired reality. Dean walked into a trap (that's Dana Millbank's very bright observation).

I hesitated posting the ABC poll re Afghanistan for precisely that reason. However happy I am that there's a poll finally showing what people have been saying all along, I'm realistic enough to realize we shouldn't get too excited. It's the positive trends - the good news from the front that I hear almost daily in my correspondence with many servicemen and women that I prefer to use as my own personal guage of who will be the last one standing.

There are plenty of hard, solid examples of progress that, along with this latest poll, could be reported daily and yet are not. That's the problem I have with the MSM. They headline our troops bombing the wrong house and killing civilians and when the truth comes out showing it was the right house and we only targeted the bad guys, it's buried on page 16.

When our troops get attacked taking a load of soccer balls to a school they've rebuilt for the children of Iraq, the MSM only reports the attack and leaves off any mention of the mission or the school.

As for Dean, he walked into a trap of his own making. The progress in Iraq is such that the Democrats now feel safe in calling for our withdrawal. They see it's going to happen soon enough anyway and they might as well cash in. It's nothing more than a ploy to make sure Bush doesn't get the credit.

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Just keep reporting JW. If enough of us keep reporting the whole truth, the made-up 'truth' by the lefties who do not want us to succeed lest they cannot justify their own negativity will be shown for the lies they are.

Fewer people died in the attack of Pearl Harbor than died in the attacks of 9/11 and the cost to us was those 290,000+ soldiers. Was it worth it? I think only idiots would say that it was not.

Will Iraq be worth it? Yes. Unless the lefties prevail and force us to turn tail and run again in which case all will have been for nothing. We have a President who won't do that now.

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U.S.: WHY ECONOMIC GROWTH IS GALLOPING

(Should be subtitled "Why Democratic Strategists Are So Depressed Lately) :wink:

Quote:

The economy is proving as unstoppable as the 11-0 Indianapolis Colts. Consumers have kept spending even in the wake of sharply higher energy prices and after their confidence was pummeled by this summer's hurricanes. And despite initial worries over demand generated by the storms and oil hikes, businesses continue to invest in new equipment and add to their payrolls.

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Great news about the economy! This should help the government get enough revenue to pay down the debt and balance the budget. No more need to cut taxes as the economy clearly seems to already be stimulated.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Fewer people died in the attack of Pearl Harbor than died in the attacks of 9/11 and the cost to us was those 290,000+ soldiers. Was it worth it? I think only idiots would say that it was not.

Will Iraq be worth it? Yes. Unless the lefties prevail and force us to turn tail and run again in which case all will have been for nothing. We have a President who won't do that now.

How is the war in Iraq anything like WWII?

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justwonders wrote

Quote:

As for Dean, he walked into a trap of his own making. The progress in Iraq is such that the Democrats now feel safe in calling for our withdrawal. They see it's going to happen soon enough anyway and they might as well cash in. It's nothing more than a ploy to make sure Bush doesn't get the credit.

Everyone plays this game...try to predict what will happen and what the opposition will spin and then work to thwart the other guys spin and come out looking relatively rosey. There's no question this administration (meaning Rove particularly) has been masterful. However else he'll be noted in the history books, he'll continue to get credit for that.

But 'success' as the factor moving troops out is naive. Bush really has no alternative. And, of course, he has no alternative but to use the words "progress" and "victory" constantly as he does and insist/suggest that reality is reflected in those words. He is not going to say "regress" or "failure" no matter what the reality is. He's finally beginning to acknowledge "problems" to a degree which matches reality but, again, he's really forced into that because of how polls demonstrate the increasing perception that he and the administration has being lying about Iraq.

foxfyre wrote

Quote:

Just keep reporting JW. If enough of us keep reporting the whole truth, the made-up 'truth' by the lefties who do not want us to succeed lest they cannot justify their own negativity will be shown for the lies they are.

Please. At least make an attempt at objectivity. What we say here simply ain't going to make a difference to future voting patterns. All we might damage by being honest/realistic is our own fragile or not psyches.

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The Wall Street Journal reminds us of what Bush's tax-cuts have done for the economy.

The stock market has risen by about $4 trillion in value, and an estimated 40% of that gain is directly attributable to increases in the after-tax return on equities, thanks to the tax cut. (If the tax cut expires, the market will instantly give back those gains.) Housing values have soared so rapidly that the fear is we now face a bubble. Household net wealth has climbed by $10 trillion.

Business investment--which had sunk into the abyss during the recession, falling by 21% between 2000 and 2002--has roared back to life. Spending is up nearly 25% over the past 30 months.

Dividend payments to shareholders have doubled in two years, according to data gathered by the American Shareholders Association. The cumulative impact of the tax cut and the higher dividend payments has put $100 billion into the pockets of America's burgeoning investor class.

The macro-economic signs all point to a solid, sustainable expansion. Employment is up 4.4 million and real GDP growth has averaged 4%--or twice the OECD average--since 2003. Today's unemployment rate of 5% means there are now roughly one million more Americans working than were projected before the tax cut.

Oh, and yes, there was a $120 billion reduction in the budget deficit in 2005. That's because tax receipts rose by more than in any previous year in U.S. history, even adjusting for inflation. Receipts were up by $55 billion above projections in 2004; $122 billion above projections in 2005; and are already running well ahead of projections so far in fiscal 2006 (which began in October).

Finally, we wonder if any of the faux debt-hawks in Congress noticed that thanks to the sizzling economy, states and localities are now running hefty budget surpluses, reversing years of red ink and painful service cutbacks. Even New York City--which for years looked like the U.S. version of debt-plagued Argentina--is back in the black.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007650

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Peace with honor (Victory) is republican speech for "bug out." Actually that's ok with me.

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Great JW. So no need to continue right? The economy is chugging right a long. Mission accomplished, now back to the budget.

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BBB
If you are of the "investment class" with discretionary funds to create wealth, things may be rosy for you. If you are not a member, things are not so great---especially if you don't have health insurance and fear losing your job. For those that are worried about being able to afford to keep their living spaces warm this winter, the rosy economy has no meaning for them.

BBB

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Re: BBB

BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

If you are of the "investment class" with discretionary funds to create wealth, things may be rosy for you. If you are not a member, things are not so great---especially if you don't have health insurance and fear losing your job. For those that are worried about being able to afford to keep their living spaces warm this winter, the rosy economy has no meaning for them.

BBB

Define "investment class"

I am not rich,nor do I make a lot of money.
BUT,I do know how to manage my money,I do know how to avoid going into debt,I do know better then buying stuff on credit,I do know better then wasting money.

So,does that make me part of the "investment class"?

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Do you earn any money on stock sales or dividends? I believe that's what they are calling the "investment class", which as far as I know is a relatively new marketing term. This would include anyone who has a 401K, apparently.

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BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

If you are of the "investment class" with discretionary funds to create wealth, things may be rosy for you. If you are not a member, things are not so great---especially if you don't have health insurance and fear losing your job. For those that are worried about being able to afford to keep their living spaces warm this winter, the rosy economy has no meaning for them.

BBB

Actually a good economy is good for these people. It means more job security (or a job where there were none the year before), perhaps better raises (or raises where there were none the year before), better chances of a company being able to afford health insurance for their employees... all of which means they are more likely to be able to heat their houses this winter.

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FreeDuck

FreeDuck wrote:

Do you earn any money on stock sales or dividends? I believe that's what they are calling the "investment class", which as far as I know is a relatively new marketing term. This would include anyone who has a 401K, apparently.

401Ks expanded the scope of the "investor class." Because I had a good 401K before I retired, I also am a member of the investor class. But I'm not rich enough to benefit from Bush's robust economy.

BBB

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Well, let's really look at Bush's accomplishments concerning our ecnomy. More middle class families are now classed as poverty. More Americans are now without health insurance. More companies like United, Delta, GM, and Ford are going bankrupt, and are continually reducing their work force and benefits.

How lucky for some that they can "brag" about the accomplishments of Bush on our economy. They don't seem to understand macro economics; the increasing federal debt, and what the future looks like.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

More companies like United, Delta, GM, and Ford are going bankrupt, and are continually reducing their work force and benefits.

To be fair, American carmakers were going down anyway. That's just the effects of free market natural selection and their failure to innovate.

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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

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