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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 08:54 am
JustWonders wrote:
Lash wrote:
I think our friend is having a bad night.

I hope he feels better soon.


He's been having bad nights for the past 40 years, though, LOL.

Actually it has been 40 years since I returned home from southeast indo-china. That was a big LOL.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 09:07 am
Cindy Sheehan: 35% Favorable 38% Unfavorable

August 19, 2005--Cindy Sheehan, the grieving mother who maintained an anti-War protest outside of President Bush's ranch, is viewed favorably by 35% of Americans and unfavorably by 38%.

Sheehan is viewed favorably by 34% of men and 35% of women. Forty-two percent (42%) of men and 34% of women have an unfavorable view.

In general, people see in Sheehan what they want to see. Opinion about her is largely based upon views of the War, rather than views about the woman herself. Democrats, by a 56% to 18% margin, have a favorable opinion. Republicans, by a 64% to 16% margin, have an unfavorable view. Those not affiliated with either major party are evenly divided.

People who think we should withdraw troops from Iraq now have a positive opinion of Sheehan (59% favorable, 12% unfavorable). Those who do not think we should withdraw troops at this time have a negative view (15% favorable , 64% unfavorable).

Among those with family members who have served in the military, Sheehan is viewed favorably by 31% and unfavorably by 48%.

Forty-two percent (42%) of Married Americans have an unfavorable opinion of Sheehan while 33% have a favorable opinion. Among those who are not married, Sheehan's numbers are 38% favorable and 30% favorable.Fifty-five percent (55%) of Americans say they are following the Sheehan story somewhat or very closely. That is a lower level of interest than Americans have in stories about Iran's nuclear capabilities. It is roughly comparable to the interest in stories about Supreme Court nominee John Roberts.News reports said that Sheehan left Texas yesterday (Thursday) to be with her mother who had suffered a stroke. Sheehan vowed to return as soon as possible.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Cindy%20Sheehan.htm
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 09:14 am
Republicans consult polls on matters like this?

*waiting for Clinton reference*
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 09:17 am
Thinking of Clinton reference...
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 09:29 am
http://logo.cafepress.com/8/2827938.769548.jpg
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 09:51 am
PDid, Republicans consult polls on the issue of a mother's right to demonstrate in this country. What's next?
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:07 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
PDid, Republicans consult polls on the issue of a mother's right to demonstrate in this country. What's next?


Please show me even one poll that said she doesnt have the right to protest.
I dont think there is one.

Nobody is saying she doesnt have the right.
What people are saying is that she is not being honest about her motivations.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:08 am
Read it again, c.i. The issue isn't her right to demonstrate. The issue is that most Americans see through her "agenda". I'm all for her demonstrating, but I just wish she'd tell the truth.

She looked straight into the camera and said that the upset rancher "was shooting at us". She knew full well that he shot into the air.

We owe Casey Sheehan our utmost respect and gratitude, but as many are learning, Cindy Sheehan deserves much less.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:11 am
http://logo.cafepress.com/2/2827938.769602.jpg
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:16 am
But if you really study the polls and what they say about Ms Sheehan, most of the voters of that poll doe not agree with you that "she has the right to demostrate." She is criticised for doing it.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:22 am
Really, c.i.?

Where?

The only poll I've seen is the one I linked. Please show us where anyone has been polled on whether she has "a right to demonstrate".

Thanks.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 10:37 am
http://logo.cafepress.com/0/2827938.769550.jpg
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 11:02 am
Comments from the right on Sheehan's demonstration: 1) She's being used. 2) She's not doing it for her son, but for her stance against the war. 3) Her son would not agree with her. 4) Her family does not agree with her. And 5) She only wants to promote herself to make money.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 11:03 am
What's been Sheehan's primary message to Bush again?
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 11:06 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
But if you really study the polls and what they say about Ms Sheehan, most of the voters of that poll doe not agree with you that "she has the right to demostrate." She is criticised for doing it.


Where?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 11:14 am
Quote:
Frank Rich: The Swift Boating of Cindy Sheehan
Frank Rich The New York Times

MONDAY, AUGUST 22, 2005


NEW YORK Cindy Sheehan couldn't have picked a more apt date to begin the vigil that ambushed a president: Aug. 6 was the fourth anniversary of that fateful 2001 vacation day in Crawford, Texas, when George W. Bush responded to an intelligence briefing titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States" by going fishing.

On this Aug. 6, the president was no less determined to shrug off bad news. Though 14 Marine reservists had been killed days earlier by a roadside bomb in Haditha, his national radio address that morning made no mention of Iraq. Once again Bush was in his bubble, ensuring that he wouldn't see Sheehan coming. So it goes with a president who hasn't foreseen any of the setbacks in the war he fabricated against an enemy who did not attack inside the United States in 2001.

When these setbacks happen in Iraq itself, the administration punts. But when they happen at home, there's a game plan. Once Sheehan could no longer be ignored, the Swift Boating began. Character assassination is the Karl Rove tactic of choice, eagerly mimicked by his media surrogates, whenever the White House is confronted by a critic who challenges it on matters of war. The Swift Boating is especially vicious if the critic has more battle scars than a president who connived to serve stateside and a vice president who had "other priorities" during Vietnam.

The most prominent smear victims have been Bush political opponents with heroic Vietnam resumes: John McCain, Max Cleland, John Kerry. But the list of past targets stretches from the former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke to Specialist Thomas Wilson, the grunt who publicly challenged Donald Rumsfeld about inadequately armored vehicles last December. The assault on the whistle-blower Joseph Wilson - the diplomat described by the first President Bush as "courageous" and "a true American hero" for confronting Saddam Hussein to save American hostages in 1991 - was so toxic it may yet send its perpetrators to jail.

True to form, the attack on Cindy Sheehan surfaced early on Fox News, where she was immediately labeled a "crackpot" by Fred Barnes.

The right-wing blogosphere quickly spread tales of her divorce, her angry Republican in-laws, her supposed political flip-flops, her incendiary sloganeering and her association with known ticket-stub-carrying attendees of "Fahrenheit 9/11." Rush Limbaugh went so far as to declare that Sheehan's "story is nothing more than forged documents - there's nothing about it that's real."

But this time the Swift Boating failed, utterly, and that failure is yet another revealing historical marker in this summer's collapse of political support for the Iraq war.

When the Bush mob attacks critics like Sheehan, its highest priority is to change the subject. If we talk about Richard Clarke's character, then we stop talking about the administration's pre-9/11 inattentiveness to terrorism. If Thomas Wilson is trashed as an insubordinate plant of the "liberal media," we forget the Pentagon's abysmal failure to give our troops adequate armor. If we focus on Valerie Plame, Joseph Wilson's wife, we lose the big picture of how the administration twisted intelligence to gin up the threat of Saddam's nonexistent weapons of mass destruction.

The hope this time was that we would change the subject to Cindy Sheehan's "wacko" rhetoric and the opportunistic left-wing groups that have attached themselves to her like barnacles. That way we would forget about her dead son. But if much of the 24/7 media has taken the bait, much of the public has not.

The backdrops against which Sheehan stands - both that of Bush's what-me-worry vacation and that of Iraq itself - are perfectly synergistic with her message of unequal sacrifice and fruitless carnage. Her point would endure even if the messenger were shot by a gun-waving Crawford hothead or she never returned to Texas from her ailing mother's bedside or the president folded the media circus by actually meeting with her. The public knows that what matters this time is Casey Sheehan's story, not the mother who symbolizes it. Cindy Sheehan's bashers, you'll notice, almost never tell her son's story.

They are afraid to go there because this young man's life and death encapsulate not just the noble intentions of those who went to fight this war but also the hubris, incompetence and recklessness of those who gave the marching orders.

Specialist Sheehan was both literally and figuratively an Eagle Scout: a church group leader and honor student whose desire to serve his country drove him to enlist before 9/11, in 2000. He died with six other soldiers on a rescue mission in Sadr City on April 4, 2004, at the age of 24, the week after four American security workers had been mutilated in Fallujah and two weeks after he arrived in Iraq. This was almost a year after the president had declared the end of "major combat operations" from the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln.

According to the account of the battle by John F. Burns of The New York Times, the insurgents who slaughtered Sheehan and his cohort were militiamen loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr, the anti-American Shiite cleric.

The Americans probably didn't stand a chance. As Burns reported, members of "the new Iraqi-trained police and civil defense force" abandoned their posts at checkpoints and police stations "almost as soon as the militiamen appeared with their weapons, leaving the militiamen in unchallenged control."

Yet in the month before Casey Sheehan's death, Rumsfeld typically went out of his way to inflate the size and prowess of these Iraqi security forces, claiming in successive interviews that there were "over 200,000 Iraqis that have been trained and equipped" and that they were "out on the front line taking the brunt of the violence." We'll have to wait for historians to tell us whether this and all the other Rumsfeld propaganda came about because he was lied to by subordinates or lying to himself or lying to us or some combination thereof.

Even now, more than a year later, a declassified Pentagon assessment puts the total count of Iraqi troops and police officers at 171,500, with only "a small number" able to fight insurgents without U.S. assistance. As for Muqtada al-Sadr, he remains as much a player as ever in the new "democratic" Iraq. He controls one of the larger blocs in the National Assembly.

His loyalists may have been responsible for last month's apparently vengeful murder of Steven Vincent, the American freelance journalist whose New York Times opinion article had maintained that al-Sadr's followers had infiltrated Basra's politics and police force.

Casey Sheehan's death in Iraq could not be more representative of the war's mismanagement and failure, but it is hardly singular.

Another mother who has journeyed to Crawford, Celeste Zappala, wrote last Sunday in New York's Daily News of how her son, Sergeant Sherwood Baker, was also killed in April 2004 - in Baghdad, where he was providing security for the Iraq Survey Group, which was charged with looking for WMDs "well beyond the admission by David Kay that they didn't exist."

As Zappala noted with rage, her son's death came only a few weeks after Bush regaled the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association banquet in Washington with a scripted comedy routine featuring photos of him pretending to look for WMDs in the Oval Office. "We'd like to know if he still finds humor in the fabrications that justified the war that killed my son," Zappala wrote. (Perhaps so: Surely it was a joke that one of the emissaries Bush sent to Cindy Sheehan in Crawford was Stephen Hadley, the national security adviser who took responsibility for allowing the 16 errant words about doomsday uranium into the president's prewar State of the Union speech.)

Bush's stand-up shtick for the Beltway press corps wasn't some aberration; it was part of the White House's political plan for keeping the home front cool. America was to yuk it up, party on and spend its tax cuts heedlessly while the sacrifice of an inadequately manned all-volunteer army in Iraq was kept out of most Americans' sight and minds. This is why the Pentagon issued a directive at the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom forbidding news coverage of "deceased military personnel returning to or departing from" air bases. It's why Bush, unlike Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter, has not attended funeral services for the military dead. It's why January's presidential inauguration, though nominally dedicated to the troops, was a gilded $40 million jamboree at which the word Iraq was banished from the Inaugural Address.

This summer in Crawford, the White House went to this playbook once too often. When Bush's motorcade left a grieving mother in the dust to speed on to a fund-raiser, that was one fat-cat party too far. The strategy of fighting a war without shared national sacrifice has at last backfired, just as the strategy of Swift Boating the war's critics has reached its Waterloo before Patrick Fitzgerald's grand jury investigation into the Valerie Plame affair in Washington. The 24/7 cable and Web attack dogs can keep on sliming Cindy Sheehan. The president can keep trying to ration the photos of flag-draped caskets. But this White House no longer has any more control over the insurgency at home than it does over the one in Iraq.

Source

edited: doublette
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 11:28 am
Quote:
They are afraid to go there because this young man's life and death encapsulate not just the noble intentions of those who went to fight this war but also the hubris, incompetence and recklessness of those who gave the marching orders.

Pretty much sums up my feelings.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 11:31 am
Thank you for that article, Walter. The republicans still cant' see they've all been hoodwinked into trusting this president that has no ethics or common sense as the leader of the free world. They always try to crucify the messenger, but some people are beginning to catch on; just some.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 01:06 pm
Statement by Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins:

"The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect."

-----------------------------------

Most of America agrees with them. The Left will never understand how aligning themselves with the radicals and loonies will backfire.

Good.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 21 Aug, 2005 01:09 pm
Seems every family has its black sheep, in Cindys case it happens to be the republican side of the family.
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